Campaign Watch

[Matiasba]

I got one for you Matiasba, why don't I see you, the Campora, other K's up in arms over César Milani's appointment
if you guys are so against people who did well/profited/helped during the Process? Seems kinda hypocritical to only
point out anti-K's as enemies of democracy and freedom, no? I have a feeling if tables were turned the militant (and
that's not a compliment) Campora and K's would be calling the UN and telling people to prepare for the reopening of
ESMA.

Look, I m not a K fan, I dont support them that much, I dont even like Cristina. As I said many times here they have no legitimacy with me, since their policies are 100% oposed to menemismo but they were menemistas. So I dont believe them. Not even close. I just like a lot of policies this government and the past with Nestor made, making a huge recovery from 2001 crisis, getting people out of poverty, fighting against corporations and the people who won the most (and ergo provocated) in the several crisis this country had. They are fighting against big fishes with a lot of political power, they faught agaisnt the IMF, against the US embassy, against the campo, agaisnt the militars, and against the media, among others. Every single 'enemy' of these could perfectly knock down a democratically elected government, and in fact did, with the little detail that they ARE NOT chosen by people. Thats why I like it.

But there are tons of things I do not like of this government, a lot. Corruption, mafias, bussiness with Barrick Gold, Monsanto, Chevron, a lot of demagogia, and a huge list with important issues. I dont like the purchase of war planes from Spain, or the way the nationalized YPF. The list is long.

There will always be things to get better, to improve, things I dont like, things to discuss. But the change this people made for this country IMHO is huge, they inverted so many vicious circles, we have social plans!!! for the first time in decades we re getting people out of poverty and not the other way round!! where did they get the money for plans? from not paying the interests debt!! see, theres a lot of positive things of this government, virtuous circles that are entirely their product. Lots of things to like as I said, and it makes me sad noone in this forum can see this, only 2 people. Fortunately this in the country is not representative, there are 30% of people who can see this positive things and it can go up to 54%. So in this forum Kirchnerismo is underrepresented, and in these discussions too. You can make fun on me or say whatever you want, but fortunately this 2% is a lot bigger outside.

 

[Matiasba]

So Macri was about 17 when the military too power in 1976 and about 24 when they fell out of power.

If a kid that age managed to make more money in less than half the times than the Kirchners did in their 15 to 20 years of grand theft, then that's exactly the kind of entrepreneurial spirit that this country needs!

It was his father.

 

[ARbound]

I just like a lot of policies this government and the past with Nestor made, making a huge recovery from 2001 crisis, getting people out of poverty, fighting against corporations and the people who won the most (and ergo provocated) in the several crisis this country had. They are fighting against big fishes with a lot of political power, they faught agaisnt the IMF, against the US embassy, against the campo, agaisnt the militars, and against the media, among others. Every single 'enemy' of these could perfectly knock down a democratically elected government, and in fact did, with the little detail that they ARE NOT chosen by people. Thats why I like it.

....

we have social plans!!! for the first time in decades we re getting people out of poverty and not the other way round!! where did they get the money for plans? from not paying the interests debt!! see, theres a lot of positive things of this government, virtuous circles that are entirely their product. Lots of things to like as I said, and it makes me sad noone in this forum can see this, only 2 people. Fortunately this in the country is not representative, there are 30% of people who can see this positive things and it can go up to 54%. So in this forum Kirchnerismo is underrepresented, and in these discussions too. You can make fun on me or say whatever you want, but fortunately this 2% is a lot bigger outside.

I'm no Henry Kissinger or Hillary Clinton, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the US Government doesn't give a shit about Argentina for the most part. You know, people joke about how Argentines have huge egos and I'm starting to see why. The US Government doesn't have the means to inject itself into the affairs of every country. Most Americans can't find Buenos Aires on a map. Argentina and Argentines are small potatoes to the US Government, and like former Soviet Bloc countries or Pacific island nations, the US Government no longer care what goes on here generally, let alone get involved in Perón v.s. Perón "elections". It's 2013, not 1983. There's no Al Qaeda here or out of control communist revolution or ethnic slaughter so don't be surprised if the US is not really that keen on wasting the embassy's time on trivial elections that are between two sides of the same coin. Sorry to burst yours and Cristina's talking point, they're just not that in to you.

It's funny how you forgot to mention that all the gains/lifting out of poverty is crushed by the fact that a new working poor, similar to the USA, by means of uncontrollable inflation that is creeping towards 30%. That's almost 2.5% PER MONTH. Even China doesn't let their economy spin out of control that fast. All the gains made by the poor are now being lost at a rate faster than their pay raises. It's a sad state, but it's what you guys went for.

*Meant 3rd person point of view, not 1st. Long day at work...

 

[Matiasba]

I'm no Henry Kissinger or Hillary Clinton, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say we don't give a shit about Argentina for the most part.
You know, people joke about how Argentines have huge egos and I'm starting to see why. The US Government doesn't have the means
to inject itself into the affairs of every country. Most Americans can't find Buenos Aires on a map. Argentina and Argentines are small
potatoes, and like former Soviet Bloc countries or Pacific island nations, we no longer care what goes on here generally, let alone
get involved in Perón v.s. Perón "elections". It's 2013, not 1983. There's no Al Qaeda here or out of control communist revolution or
ethnic slaughter so we're not really that keen on wasting our embassy's time on trivial elections that are between two sides of the same
coin. Sorry to burst yours and Cristina's talking point, we're just not that in to you.

It's funny how you forgot to mention that all the gains/lifting out of poverty is crushed by the fact that a new working poor, similar to the USA,
by means of uncontrollable inflation that is creeping towards 30%. That's almost 2.5% PER MONTH. Even China doesn't let their economy
spin out of control that fast. All the gains made by the poor are now being lost at a rate faster than their pay raises. It's a sad state, but it's
what you guys went for.

Google "Braden o Peron", and then think, if they were so immersed in the 40s, how can they not be on these much more complex societies, where US interests (represented in all its corporations) are all over the globe.

 

[scotttswan]

So, Matias, I have a related question, which I mean in all sincerity. Should people be punished (i.e. have their careers ended) for "portacion de apellido"? I ask because I am aware of the phenomenon of military officers who were denied promotion for no other reason than their being children or relatives of men who were on active duty during the dictatorship years. Just to be clear, I am speaking of people who were children in the '70s and have spent their whole adult lives and careers under a democratic regime.

It shouldnt. But it is a rare exception somebody who was involved in one way or another with the dictatorship to not be aware of the crimes.

So Macri was about 17 when the military too power in 1976 and about 24 when they fell out of power.

It was his father.

 

[Matiasba]

what are you suggesting by this? Please, explain me, cause I dont get it.
I never said Mauricio Macri had fault of something done in the dictatorship, If you read I said it was the Macri group (ran by his father). Of course I believe that Mauricio is very similar to his father concerning to politics, the interests he represents and his political view. He was a kid and have no fault on this, I could have never said the opposite.

 

[scotttswan]

what are you suggesting by this? Please, explain me, cause I dont get it.
I never said Mauricio Macri had fault of something done in the dictatorship, If you read I said it was the Macri group (ran by his father). Of course I believe that Mauricio is very similar to his father concerning to politics, the interests he represents and his political view. He was a kid and have no fault on this, I could have never said the opposite.

Im not saying Macris party is antidemocratic. I worked for Pro and know a lot of people there, they are trully democratic. So nada que ver. Im saying his origins are linked with the dictatorship, thats the way they made fortunes. Thats all.

If you re one of the enterprizes that negotiates the most with a dictatorial anti constitutional repressive government I believe you are not innocent. If you are the one that have got more beneffits from that regime, that multiplied the debt for six without consulting anyone, that regimen that kidnapped, robbed babies and killed, and make a lot of dirty bussiness, you re accomplice.

 

[Matiasba]

I said their fortunes, I was talking of their fortunes, of the Macri family, please read again.

Edit: I re read and probably I expressed myself wrong. I talk of "his" origins but then I switched to "they" as a subject. So it can be confusing. In that case, the context (paragraph) is a background that might help.

 

[Matiasba]

The bottom line is that Mauricio Macri still represents the economic interests of his father, his companies, that grown a lot during the dictatorship. He, Mauricio, grew up in a entrepreneur environment that is linked with the dictatorship, with UCD, Alsogaray, etc, and his ideology is alike with the socioeconomic model the dictatorship and the menemismo proposed. So pretty much there are a lots of coincidences from the economic point of view with the dictatorship. The same model implanted by force in Chile that failed twice here, is the model Macri would implant if he becomes president. (notice I m not using labels).

 

[John.St]

So, every company who made any money in the years of the dictatorship now has to do what exactly? Never do business again? Leave the country?

Of course. Every company, which made any money during the dictatorship and does not pay homage to the kirchneristas must leave the country and leave hostages as a guarantee that they will never do business again..... with the exception of Monteneros....oh, and of kirchneristas who made money in the years of the dictatorship... and of people with the surname 'Kirchner'or 'de Kirchner'...and ...