Citizenship

[tigrino]

Okay, the idea to search in English produced an uncanny result. It never occurred to me that searching Google for "citizenship Argentina" in English would actually bring more results than searching for the same in Spanish. It's probably reasonable in the hindsight but I never tried. Now I immediately found the requirements of the court in San Martin and the application form. Great, thanks!

 

[steveinbsas]

Okay, the idea to search in English produced an uncanny result. It never occurred to me that searching Google for "citizenship Argentina" in English would actually bring more results than searching for the same in Spanish. It's probably reasonable in the hindsight but I never tried. Now I immediately found the requirements of the court in San Martin and the application form. Great, thanks!

Please post the link so that others can find the location of the court(s) nearest to their location and submit their application for citizenship without having to consult a lawyer,

 

[DasMeer]

Most of the requirements lists are available on the old PJN site. It raises a lot of questions such as:

1. If there's a mountain of jurisprudence on the matter, why don't those requirements lists incorporate it? They're asking for a DNI/CE still instead of saying a passport is OK. It doesn't make sense why any of these applications would end up going to court at all these days if it's been beaten to death 250+ times already;
2. Same question, essentially, for why the main government site doesn't reflect it and lists additional papers like the certificado de antecedentes (especially for parents of Argentines);
3. There's no specifics on the date of emission of the birth certificate required, so, in my case, the one I have from 2013 would be accepted. Is that accurate? I've fought this successfully with bureaucrats in other jurisdictions when they make up nonsensical conditions on the spot, so I'd like to think it would work there too;
4. Why were the docket numbers removed from the docs on the site? It would be helpful to have the rulings to reference directly in the formulario, because it would nullify any bureaucratic nitpicking immediately. For example, after 'artículo 2do. de la Ley 346,' various parts of decreto n°3213/1984 could be cited as well.

Not sure how much of my initial questions I've answered by pontificating here. It seems I can apply with the bare minimum and if it's rejected reapply immediately somewhere else. However, it would be ideal to have some confirmation on the strategy from people who've done it.

 

[arvest]

Most of the requirements lists are available on the old PJN site. It raises a lot of questions such as:

1. If there's a mountain of jurisprudence on the matter, why don't those requirements lists incorporate it? They're asking for a DNI/CE still instead of saying a passport is OK. It doesn't make sense why any of these applications would end up going to court at all these days if it's been beaten to death 250+ times already;
2. Same question, essentially, for why the main government site doesn't reflect it and lists additional papers like the certificado de antecedentes (especially for parents of Argentines);
3. There's no specifics on the date of emission of the birth certificate required, so, in my case, the one I have from 2013 would be accepted. Is that accurate? I've fought this successfully with bureaucrats in other jurisdictions when they make up nonsensical conditions on the spot, so I'd like to think it would work there too;
4. Why were the docket numbers removed from the docs on the site? It would be helpful to have the rulings to reference directly in the formulario, because it would nullify any bureaucratic nitpicking immediately. For example, after 'artículo 2do. de la Ley 346,' various parts of decreto n°3213/1984 could be cited as well.

Not sure how much of my initial questions I've answered by pontificating here. It seems I can apply with the bare minimum and if it's rejected reapply immediately somewhere else. However, it would be ideal to have some confirmation on the strategy from people who've done it.

If your citizenship case is denied or goes to limbo you can immediately reapply in a different court/jurisdiction? I seem to recall that there was a case where an applicant was chastised for doing they by an appeals court.

 

[DasMeer]

If your citizenship case is denied or goes to limbo you can immediately reapply in a different court/jurisdiction? I seem to recall that there was a case where an applicant was chastised for doing they by an appeals court.

From that site, it says, 'On the other hand, when dealing with federal courts for citizenship, you are under civil law dealing with civil judges whose role is of a notary of your freedom giving the applicant a wide range of defense tools like to alegate, produce private and public evidence, to appeal, recusal, apply over and over changing the judges until citizenship is recognized because your freedom cannot be litigated at civil courts since slavery was abolish meaning you have immunity of jurisdiction because your freedom can be lost, only, by the sentence of a Criminal Judge.' It's seems like you can't judge shop according to 7.051/2022/1. on 28/06/2022, but I don't see what would keep you from reapplying as long as you had a certificado de domicilio where you were submitting the docs. I think that cert would be required to keep them from rejecting the application upon grounds of venue and that makes sense it's included in the simplified requirements list. Anyway, there's a bit in Sistema de Jurisprudencia on the matter if anyone else is interested:

• DNI isn't a requirement - 1.042/11 on 30/06/2011;
• Residency required for spouse of Argentine - 2.410/2021. on 7/07/22 - this seems to conflict with info on this forum, the mentioned site, and the requirements list;
• 14.395/2022/1. on 03/11/2022 - very interesting read;
• ...a lot more I'm reading still.

The court in Formosa responded to me with their requirements list. It's a bit different from the simplified one we've been seeing. See attached.

 

[Brian_is_here]

From that site, it says, 'On the other hand, when dealing with federal courts for citizenship, you are under civil law dealing with civil judges whose role is of a notary of your freedom giving the applicant a wide range of defense tools like to alegate, produce private and public evidence, to appeal, recusal, apply over and over changing the judges until citizenship is recognized because your freedom cannot be litigated at civil courts since slavery was abolish meaning you have immunity of jurisdiction because your freedom can be lost, only, by the sentence of a Criminal Judge.' It's seems like you can't judge shop according to 7.051/2022/1. on 28/06/2022, but I don't see what would keep you from reapplying as long as you had a certificado de domicilio where you were submitting the docs. I think that cert would be required to keep them from rejecting the application upon grounds of venue and that makes sense it's included in the simplified requirements list. Anyway, there's a bit in Sistema de Jurisprudencia on the matter if anyone else is interested:

• DNI isn't a requirement - 1.042/11 on 30/06/2011;
• Residency required for spouse of Argentine - 2.410/2021. on 7/07/22 - this seems to conflict with info on this forum, the mentioned site, and the requirements list;
• 14.395/2022/1. on 03/11/2022 - very interesting read;
• ...a lot more I'm reading still.

The court in Formosa responded to me with their requirements list. It's a bit different from the simplified one we've been seeing. See attached.

wow those are like very punitive and seem dated.

You shouldn’t need to read and write Spanish.

And the 2 years continuous. That could be arranged to be 2 years of residence in the country… not continuously.

I’d really suggest doing that in a different province. Entre Ríos wasn’t rough. Although medios de vida is a bit complicated depending on how you’re earning income.

 

[DasMeer]

I found this locator for the courts in PBA in case anyone needs it. The same site has a jurisprudence search.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Courts are on strike? I suppose you are not joking, but this is ... unexpected, to say the least.

I was not asking for an appointment, I am only asking them whether I am in the right place for the procedure and what documents they will be requiring. Or should I just ask for an appointment and then bring documents as required after?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Courts are on strike? I suppose you are not joking, but this is ... unexpected, to say the least.

I was not asking for an appointment, I am only asking them whether I am in the right place for the procedure and what documents they will be requiring. Or should I just ask for an appointment and then bring documents as required after?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I found this locator for the courts in PBA in case anyone needs it. The same site has a jurisprudence search.

This is the ordinary Justice of Buenos Aires province, not the Federal Courts.