Ciudadanía / Citizenship

[ElCordobés]

Received my call today. Oath ceremony June 2nd. Meet at juzgado at 9am. Oath at approx. noon as was the case with my wife. If we have the time and the ganas...we will be go to the registro with both cartas, my two girls (the Argentine and the one we hope to register with us) and high hopes but low expectations that we will all be registered.

 

[ElCordobés]

This link has the form to register children "Por Opcion" and also shows the Carta de Ciudadania form. For our case of trying to register our daughter as Argentine--it does NOT say Argentino Nativo on the form...just Argentino which is nice, but it refers directly to the law which explicitly states that the parent must be Nativo. We'll see how the interpret things here soon.

 

[ElCordobés]

Did my oath today about 10:15am. A different process than my wife's. I arrived at 8:40...was given my carta to run it down to the Federal Police for a thumbprint. (My wife did hers at the counter in the juzgado). Mine is type-wrtten where hers was hand-written. When I checked in--I was told we would now be doing the oath at about 10am rather than mid day and that I had better call my wife if she was to attend. She just made it.

There were approx 20-25 of us. Once it was time--small groups were called in and lined up in the chambers by the type of oath they choose. From the most religious to the secular. The judge came in said a few words. And as we had been instructed, we were invited up one by one to put our right hand on the bible or in my case the constitution. The judge asked me where I was from. He did the same for a gentleman from Morocco as we were the "weird" ones. After complete--the judge said a few more words welcoming us all as Argentines then went around to shake hands.

We were invited to have a coffee at the cafe in the building and that it would take 30-45 minutes to distribute the cartas.

After about 45 minutes the first cartas were given with preference to the people with children and the older folks--I love that, but I didn't bring my kids this time. They handed them out about 2-3 at at time unlike the mass group for my wife's. I got mine after about 90 minutes wait. There were 7-8 people remaining when I left.

I was told the tramite was complete. They did not want a copy of the DNI as they had for my wife. Just bring the orginal and sentence to the Registro and protect the copies.

That's it. We're going to make our way to the registro this week hopefully to register and take our shot with my daughters.

 

[ElCordobés]

Requested our new DNIs today are the Provincial Registro. Yea! It was a five minute process for each or us. They scanned our respective cartas and sentences. They wrote some numbers on the carta and returned everything (The juzgados said the Registro would keep the originals, but did not). They provided the "Constancia de Solicitud" and told me about four weeks to receive. We do not have a new DNI number yet (There's a shorter number for the tramite where it says DNI Number).

We happened to move this week and were able to just tell them the new address which no documentation, contract, service, or certificado de domicilio. We will requests passports once our DNIs arrive at our home. Other than wanting to hold my new passport--we don't currently have a pending trip where we'd need it. It will be nice to see the red EXTRANJERO emblazoned across our DNIs removed.

There was a long wait for turnos today. We went with our girls in case we might be able to get my US-born daughter registered. So we arrived late, but fortunately received some of the last turnos of the morning.

While we waited...I spoke to the person who handles "Por Opción" requests. I explained my case. She said only "nativos" and was very clear it wasn't going to happen. There was a nativo waiting after me and was very happy to waive her in. Before I left--I asked for something in writing stating the rejection (rechazo). She referred me to the director's office (that's what I wanted). I waited for some time to talk to the director, but ultimately spoke to her primary assistant along with the secretary. They kindly listened to our case. I referenced the unconstitutionality of the law (in terms of Native vs Naturalized not being treated equally under the law) and that it was my understanding that the registro does have the power register her, but told me that they were effectively administrative pawns. The secretary tried to refer me to migracion. I know that's not going to go anywhere. And the main assistant said I would need to do the same trámite that I had completed for my wife and me and if I return with a carta they will register her.

I might still try the CDR office in Córdoba as well (http://turnos.minint...v.ar/turnosWeb/). As I understand RENAPER is under the Ministry of the Interior. See if I can get them to reject in a more formal manner. It all goes to BA for approval regardless.

Most likely I will be pursuing a court order/amparo to get this done. As flexible as the citizenship law is--it's surprising how rigid it is with respect to minors of naturalized Argentines. Many (most?) countries grant citizenship to minors of naturalized parents automatically. I had heard changes to the law had been proposed (en proyecto) but it didn't go anywhere. I suspect at some point the word "nativo" will be removed from the law or stronger judgments//fallos will grant it in the future.

Edit: One of the other issues/arguments that might strengthen the case. We don't enjoy the rights within Mercosur to travel freely. My daughter as a US-citizen with Argentine permanent residency cannot travel freely with her Argentine parents and sister. She will require a visa in many instances. I suspect we could get the Mercosur visa for many countries with her as a dependent but it certainly doesn't make it easier.

 

[ElCordobés]

Appt for DNIs was Friday June 5th midday. Online status shows both were issued today the 15th.

EL DNI FUE EMITIDO Y ENTREGADO A LA EMPRESA DE CORREO OCA CON FECHA 15-06-2015

Not bad. Just over a business week. I assume they're issuing a lot with the June 30th Nuevo DNI deadline approaching. Fingers crossed no errors.

Still struggling with how to pursue my daughter's case. Will take a shot at the other registro. If no love there--engage an attorney.

After the DNIs arrive. I have to change numbers with AFIP, banks, la luz, patente car registration, car insurance, new driver's license, Fibertel, get passports, and then maybe change our permisos de viaje (travel authorization with kids) and who knows what else.

 

[ElCordobés]

Update. A friend of mine referred my daughter's case to a friend of hers who is an attorney at MINISTERIO DE JUSTICIA Y DERECHOS HUMANOS. She has already been in contact me and today with the director at the Registro with whom I did not speak directly previously. She said the director is analyzing our case and will provide a written response. The response could be good...or not. We'll see.

The attorney also has a meeting with migraciones tomorrow and will mention the case. I don't suspect that it would go anywhere since this really isn't a migracion issue, but perhaps they know something.

Anyway, it may go nowhere but having an attorney from Justice and Human Rights asking around can't be a bad thing!

 

[ElCordobés]

23JUN15 DNIs have arrived!
15JUN15 Issued and Delivered to OCA
08JUN15 Date of Issue (I believe this is the date our DNI numbers were assigned)
05JUN15 Original Appt at Registro

Our numbers now start with 19 rather than 95. I imagine we're going to get some double-takes when we show them.

A few notes. Nice to see no EXTRANJERO on it. Of course, Nationality now reads: Argentina. The reverse side has Place of Birth, Naturalization date, the court and judge who issued the carta.

There is one typo on my wife's--the judge's name. We'll be going to the CDR to get our passports in the next couple weeks. Might try to get that fixed.

Also worth noting that my wife had both her Permanent Resident DNI and her new DNI issued in her married name. It was never questioned. The OCA guy did ask if we were siblings today though. We get that often. He also asked if we're French...getting that regularly as well...if not Brazilian... Our accents are just good enough to sound weird, but not like English speakers.

 

[Ceviche]

Our numbers now start with 19 rather than 95.

All foreigners who get citizenship have their DNI's starting with '19"

 

[ElCordobés]

So we're still "branded" Haha. Didn't know...just reporting the DNI details for those who might be interested.

 

[ElCordobés]

Made appts the other day for the CDR (Registro operated by ReNaPer) for today. 10-11am window. It couldn't have taken 10 minutes. Go to the window to enter/verify the request, then to the caja to pay (Visa Debit or Credit only) and then directly to the window for photo and fingerprints...there was no line for any window.

At the initial desk they said the couldn't do anything for my daughter. She wasn't with us, but I thought I'd ask. I asked again at the my passport window where the representative was extraordinarily nice. After she put in my info she ran back to speak with the jefa/boss. She directed us to go speak with her directly and she'd explain how to register my daughter.

We waked right up and spoke with the jefa and another extraordinarily friendly agent. They were certain the could register her (I didn't indicate my doubts). So we were thinking wow...this is promising. The boss told the other rep to simply do it as "opción de nacionalidad." She asked for our, DNIs, birth certs (and whether they were translated with Apostille...they are) and cartas de ciudadanía, and even our other daughter's Argentine birth cert. She looked over everything and thought everything was in order and then she called her boss in BsAs, that's when I expected to hit the road block. And it did. She explained the whole situation to the boss, but got nowhere. I heard her say more than once "but they're all Argentine" But it didn't matter. I referenced jurisprudence and equality under the law, and even asked if she could submit it so we could get a formal rejection/rechazo. She said she couldn't. She advised to try with the court and we might be able to get an "express" ruling. They used the word express as we'd say in English, but they were just trying to help...I'm sure they don't know exactly what to do. I had indicated we'd try to get an amparo (court order) or a carta de ciudadanía. I had asked had they ever scene a case like this for Peruvians or Bolivians that had a child born abroad. Apparently not.

Interesting thing. Also three people I talked to called us Argentines "por opción" This is more than semantics. "Por opción" technically refers to those born to native or "por opcion" Argentines, NOT to naturalized, but born abroad. Legally (albeit unconstitutional in another sense) there is a distinction between the three types--so I felt they should use the correct terminology. Also the requirements that ReNaper sends for registering an opcion de nacionalidad appt never mentions that one parent must "nativo" They language is inconsistently applied, except for the citizenship Law 346 which is what is important and rules the day.

So next stop appears to be the Tribunales Federales (The court).