Clinton - Trump Live Debate Monday Sept. 26 Th.

"President Bill Clintonhas been accused of sexual assault by two women, Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey. At least eight other women have accused Bill Clinton of sexually harassing them or making unwanted sexual advances toward them, with the allegations dating back to the 1970s."

http://heavy.com/new...hotos-pictures/

And that doesn't include having voluntary "seuxal relations" with a young intern in the White House.

Something he initially denied: https://www.youtube....h?v=VBe_guezGGc

And later admitted: https://www.youtube....h?v=UEmjwR0Rs20
Okay, Bill Clinton did have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky in the White House. Hillary and him worked it out and saved their marriage, something all republicans should praise them for.

As for all of the allegations....that is all they are.....allegations sponsored by a very hostile bunch of people (Breitbart, etc).

Trump on the other hand bragged about assaulting women and then some women came forward saying he did what he said he did. Yes, also allegations but with a major difference.

T/
 
Too many people don't give a crap any more about the facades a presidential candidate must put up to make everyone like him or her so they can be elected and go on being the kind of person Trump doesn't bother to cover up in himself. That's why Trump made it so far. Sick. To. Death. of politics as usual.
you realize how self contradictory this paragraph is? Trump's not going to loose because he's politically incorrect. That's why he succeeded. Trumps going to lose because when you pull back the curtain of his facade there is nothing. Zero zip.
Anyone who touts all the good that Hillary has done for women and children while she (at the very best) ignores how her husband has treated women for decades is not seeing reality when talking about all the good she's done. It would be like a famous actor decrying the use of heroin and helping people get over the drug while secretly ensuring that their spouse has his or her fix well-stocked and the secret is kept well-guarded. Do we want an enabler as president? And that's not even talking about all the stuff that Hillary herself is "allegedly" involved in. Yeah, I'm sure she's a saint aside from her enabling.
Has Hillary made excuses for her husband? No. Do these attacks reek of the sexist trope of blaming of the woman whose husband strays? Yes
The thing about Trump is that he makes it absolutely impossible to ignore his bad behavior. He's an idiot, a buffoon - but everyone knows it. He's not running for president as the most perfect person. There is pretty much nothing left to the imagination with Trump. He is certainly not business as usual, and in that he attracts so many voters because so many people are fed up with the run-of-the-mill stupidity of politics. If they're going to have stupidity, at least let it be in the open!
People don't know that he's an idiot. Some people (idiots) that think he's a genius. Here's the thing, people are stupid and ignorant. People hate the status quo but willfully ignore the fact that the US status quo is one of the best in the world and that "burn down the system" is most likely going to end up in a place much worse than where we were before, just look at the majority of other countries (like our home here) where the people would kill to have the institutions that the US does.
I don't believe that either Clinton or Trump would start a nuclear war - at least not without the tacit consent of the People themselves, which may not be all that unlikely unfortunately (as Bush II proved with Iraq). But don't blame that on either candidate.
</p>Dude, that's not how nuclear war works! If it happens, it won't be with consent, tacit or otherwise, of the people. I don't think it's likely to happen under president Trump but, given the dire outcome, I think it is a risk we can't afford to take. Trump is unstable. He doesn't think anything through. He can't.
 
Okay, Bill Clinton did have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky in the White House. Hillary and him worked it out and saved their marriage, something all republicans should praise them for.

As for all of the allegations....that is all they are.....allegations sponsored by a very hostile bunch of people (Breitbart, etc).

Trump on the other hand bragged about assaulting women and then some women came forward saying he did what he said he did. Yes, also allegations but with a major difference.

T/

Just want to point out that Juanita Broaddrick ('s) allegation of sexual assault against Clinton was reported on NBC's Dateline in 1999. Breitbart was not launched until 2007.

There's a well balanced article about the issue in the context of current events here: http://www.huffingto...4b0e655eab54dee
 
Just want to point out that Juanita Broaddrick ('s) allegation of sexual assault against Clinton was reported on NBC's Dateline in 1999. Breitbart was not launched until 2007.

There's a well balanced article about the issue in the context of current events here: http://www.huffingto...4b0e655eab54dee

I would say Juanita's allegation certainly has some merit and should be taken seriously. Does the USA have statutes of limitation for cases of sexual assault?
 
I wish that was the choice. It is not. The choice is between a racist/sexist bigot and a warmonger who sold her soul to Wall Street and who would order anyone killed without hesitation in order to accomplish her goals. .

Don't you mean a racist/sexist bigot who's also a warmonger and a warmonger alleged by you who possibly sold her soul to Wall Street but most likely would rule out using nuclear weapons on Europe?

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-bomb-isis-2015-11

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/27/politics/donald-trump-libya-isis/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-refuses-to-rule-out-using-nuclear-weapons-in-attack-on-europe-a6961101.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/11/trump-wants-to-re-invade-iraq-bomb-things.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/9/donald-trump-id-bomb-hell-out-oil-fields/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-reiterates-desire-to-murder-terrorists-families-a6912496.html

But then again he changes position all the time who knows what he really thinks. He's a bit like Jill Stein in that way.
 
Don't you mean a racist/sexist bigot who's also a warmonger and a warmonger alleged by you who possibly sold her soul to Wall Street but most likely would rule out using nuclear weapons on Europe?

If you are trying to get me to defend Trump, you are wasting your time. I have no pet politicians. My issue is with people who somehow come to this conclusion that Hillary is more honorable or less dangerous than Trump. She isn't. The difference is that Trump is what he is, no filters, no masks. What you see is what you get (which is a pile of shit) Hillary is the nice, kind, old lady that one day, out of nowhere, will stab you right in the heart without hesitation if somehow you get in her way.
 
If you are trying to get me to defend Trump, you are wasting your time. I have no pet politicians. My issue is with people who somehow come to this conclusion that Hillary is more honorable or less dangerous than Trump. She isn't. The difference is that Trump is what he is, no filters, no masks. What you see is what you get (which is a pile of shit) Hillary is the nice, kind, old lady that one day, out of nowhere, will stab you right in the heart without hesitation if somehow you get in her way.
You've been watching too much house of cards.
 
Don't know much about Hillary and the allegations admitedly but its enough to know she stayed with her undeniably sleazebag cheating lying husband for whatever reason. The reason to distrust her doesnt have to be more complicated than that. And she REALLY REALLY wants to be POTUS. If The Donald loses I feel that he'd carry on as usual. Probably saying he didnt want to be pres anyway like an 8 yr old would say. If Hills loses I could imagine her losing the plot especially if her physical health is not great.
 
You've been watching too much house of cards.

A lot of politicians have talked to Kevin Spacey and told him that House of Cards is really not so far from the truth, except that the truth is much worse. So far this election cycle doesn't really seem far from House of Cards, in a lot of ways. Hillary Clinton is corrupt to the bone, and Donald Trump is a narcissist jerk. I really think the show is a good comparison.
 
you realize how self contradictory this paragraph is? Trump's not going to loose because he's politically incorrect. That's why he succeeded. Trumps going to lose because when you pull back the curtain of his facade there is nothing. Zero zip.

That's pretty much what I meant, I just didn't finish the thought all the way through (and I'll admit it wasn't well written either!). Trump has success because he was politically incorrect. Trump lost the race, which could have been his for the taking, because he's practically mentally retarded, or perhaps something like an idiot savant with a bizarre form of Tourette Syndrome. Imagine if he had been able to talk coherently without a script and shut up when it was wise to do so, and having said some of the things he said as considered statements instead of accidental diarrhea of the mouth. He'd have mopped up on Clinton, because people are so sick of business as usual.

Has Hillary made excuses for her husband? No. Do these attacks reek of the sexist trope of blaming of the woman whose husband strays? Yes
She is still married to the man, after a couple of certain affairs and a number of accusations of wrong doing on her part as well, which seem to have an awful lot of meat to them, whether they have been proved or not. They honestly remind me of the presidential couple in House of Cards, as has been mentioned. My personal feeling on this isn't related to a sexist trope. I'm actually pretty liberal when it comes to relationships (it's part of my "liberal" side when I talk about being socially liberal and economically conservative, something either party can not be, wholly, but I try to be). Rather, I feel it is more a demonstration of how she, herself is, which is "tal para cual" with her husband. She does certain things (allegedly") to make sure she is successful. Or that her husband was. In her husband's case, if those particular allegations are to be believed, she threatened "bimbos" to keep silent [and does it matter if the allegations against WC were true and she was just trying to make sure it didn't affect his run for presidency? Is that how people are supposed to go about fixing a problem, by threatening people?], accepting how her husband treated women, while she was a fighter for women's rights. A fighter for women's rights should have a good image for that, I'd think (any example for any group should, what I'm saying isn't sexist).

And that word "alleged". This is a presidential election, not a legal trial which will end in prison time if found guilty. My feelings are that there is a lot of truth behind all of the allegations. Not just her acceptance of her husband's wayward ways while claiming to be a supporter and example for women everywhere. That's all I, personally, need to feel to make me feel that she is corrupt and mean, and is not even necessarily strong in the ideal department. Not innocent until proven guilty in elections. Weight the evidence, even circumstantial, and make a decision based on your gut instincts. Maybe not fair, but since we can't read minds very necessary.

People don't know that he's an idiot. Some people (idiots) that think he's a genius. Here's the thing, people are stupid and ignorant. People hate the status quo but willfully ignore the fact that the US status quo is one of the best in the world and that "burn down the system" is most likely going to end up in a place much worse than where we were before, just look at the majority of other countries (like our home here) where the people would kill to have the institutions that the US does.
Yes, I agree that things are better in the US than many, many other places in the world. Yet, how long will the US continue to better than many other status quos in the world?

I can't help but compare how life in the States was when I was a kid, a teenager, a young adult as a laborer and an office worker, an older adult as a businessman, and now a bit-more-than-middle-aged man looking back at what my father had to deal with compared to what I have to deal with. I'm not talking any kind of Golden Age. I'm talking about styles of life for a lot of people, seeming to me to go steadily down instead of up in the last 20-30 years. My father always thought that since his parent's time (starting say a decade or two into the 20th century) things had gone up for people, in general. I don't see it now. I can't even go into all the things I've seen be harder and more complicated for my kids than they were for me.

Republicans blame it on the Democrats. Democrats blame it on the Republicans. I blame it on the status quo. It's both, and more.

You characterize a large shift in the status quo as burning down the system, which certainly makes such a change sound dismal indeed.

Changing the status quo is not easy. It has a huge amount of inertia. Trump hit it pretty hard and didn't have as much effect on it as I, personally, would have liked. But he hasn't torn anything down. Even if he's elected president, it would largely be an aberration which at worst would have knocked the compass of the status quo off by a degree or two. If something else doesn't come along to back up his strike, it will not make any difference in the long run. But maybe later he would have freed up another person, with a little more intelligence, to take another run at the status quo and turn things a bit better. There is no actual N, S, E or W on the compass of status quo, it's multidimensional. It just needs to be nudged.

Incremental changes due to inertia. Not tearing things down, I think.

</p>Dude, that's not how nuclear war works! If it happens, it won't be with consent, tacit or otherwise, of the people. I don't think it's likely to happen under president Trump but, given the dire outcome, I think it is a risk we can't afford to take. Trump is unstable. He doesn't think anything through. He can't.
Well, I don't agree with you on this. I think Clinton is more likely to put us into a situation where we have a major war, or worse, than Trump is to light off a nuke. As far as approval of the people, I mean that enough people would have to be feel sufficiently threatened that people throughout the line of people needed to actually launch or drop a nuke, between Trump and that event, would allow it to happen. I have a lot of faith in people - I don't think everyone is "stupid and ignorant" and I do think a lot of people who serve in the military (and who would be involved in such an operation) are mostly honorable and patriotic humans, not blind robots who will do anyone's bidding just because he happens to be their boss. I believe there are definite limits as to how far such people will go for someone they don't respect, or in a situation that they don't believe warrants what is happening.

I don't believe the US is similar to Nazi Germany these days, as many problems as we do indeed have, which is almost what you seem to suggest and what I would think would be required for Trump to successfully light off a nuke.

Much easier to get into a war and kill a bunch of people like that, as Bush showed us.
 
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