Coming to BsAs with dog..

CarlyB

Registered
Thank you all for your detailed and passionate replies - I really appreciate it!! I didn't think about looking into UPS or FedEx.. We are going through an agency here in California and then another agency in BsAs, Las Lunas, who will get Lola from customs. Admittedly, I have A LOT of anxiety about transporting Lola (53 lbs), but since we are planning on being in Argentina through the end of the year, we figure we're in this together. Who knows? If we really like it, then maybe our trip back to the US will be quick and we can leave Lola with someone in BsAs for a short time while we do the holiday thing with family, then return to Argentina..

The info about food is VERY helpful. And, while we will be staying in San Telmo, I would love any vet recommendations, regardless of neighborhood.

Thank you!
 

Skipper747

Registered
Sorry for those of you who have to travel with your dogs/cats in airplanes, and especially sorry for those of you who had problems. One thing though, most of you expect a lot of "tender loving care" from the airlines for your pets when they travel as baggage. Well, I hope you also believe in Santa Claus.
xxx
There is no practical means, for the flight crew, to regulate the temperature in the baggage compartments of passenger aircraft. As I mentioned above, baggage compartments in a typical airliner are freezing cold - I say again FREEZING COLD during flight time. In addition these compartments are pitch dark, and noisy as hell during flight. And if an intermediate stop enroute, from freezing cold, the temperature in the baggage compartment can go from 25 or 30ºF to 120ºF within a matter of a short hour with an airplane parked on the ramp...
xxx
Some of you imagine that airlines are careful. That is the "theory" and "public relations" - As a retired airline pilot with a career that spanned from 1969 to 2008 - do not try to pull my leg. I have witnessed enough stories and heard of unfortunate "dead dawg" stories, half a dozen times every year. The "ramp gorillas" (baggage handling staff) do not care any more for a Samsonite than they do for a kennel with a poodle. Why do we - pilots - call them "gorillas" ??? - You see, many of us pilots, are dog and cat lovers too.
xxx
I have a 7 years old Siberian husky, and would never never make him subject of that treatment with ANY airline. As I mentioned, I would only consider shipping him on a dedicated cargo aircraft such as FedEx or UPS operate, for the dog safety and comfort. Baggage compartment = absolutely out of question.
xxx
As you realize, I have airline travel, reduced or free tickets, as part of my retirement benefits. I often go to Florianopolis, SC (Brazil). In the old days, I had friends with Aerolineas (and with Varig) sneaking the dog to the cockpit for the flight. Nowadays I cannot do that anymore. So nowadays, going to Floriapo, for me, is 2 days drive, via Buquebus, Colonia, through Uruguay and an overnight at friend's place in Porto Alegre. A 2 days trip in my old 20 years old Peugeot 205 rather than 2 hours in the baggage area of a Boeing 737...
xxx
Carly asked about travel for her dog. I answered with the "inside info" that I can provide as an airline pilot. All the rest you hear about airline care of animals is "hog wash", ladies and gentlemen. If you cannot take the dog in the cabin with you, do not put him in the baggage compartment. Ask your brother, or sister, or kids, to care for your dog while you travel to Argentina. And if you move here, call FedEx or UPS and ship the dog as I described, in a cargo airplane.
xxx
I had 2 "stowaways" a few years ago, aboard one of my flights. I often took a leave of absence from Aerolineas to go flying in the Middle East and make big salary extra flying the pilgrims going to Mecca in Saudi Arabia. One time, 2 Banglandeshi baggage handlers (in Jeddah) "sneaked" into the rear baggage compartment of my 747 to enjoy a break, stretch a little, and close their eyes, rather than loading baggage. Unfortunately someone else locked the door of the compartment as the plane got ready for flight. We flew from Jeddah to Dakar, Senegal, a 7 hours-long flight, with our 2 friends freezing their buns in the compartment. Upon arrival, they got taken away in an ambulance, not in an airport police or security vehicle... Got the idea...?
xxx
Of course - you know better about airlines than I do...
It is YOUR dog, not mine...
But the kind of guy I am, if I would see a terrorized or frozen dog around my plane, I would take him out of his kennel, and with a leash, he would travel with me in the cockpit, and eat some of my steak and lobster crew meal. I do not care what the chief pilot would say.
Carly, sorry, the airline retired me because of age, but in my days, your doggy would have made the trip on a jump seat in the cockpit. Regulations or not... You just would have had to ask me. I was that kind of guy...
xxx
Have a good trip, anyway...
 

orwellian

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One really important thing is the energy you project to your dog when you check them in. If you are anxious they will pick up on it and you will transfer that anxiety onto your dog.
 

French jurist

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orwellian said:
One really important thing is the energy you project to your dog when you check them in. If you are anxious they will pick up on it and you will transfer that anxiety onto your dog.
When answering a thread, some people transfer too their own anxiety in the way they do answer (just kidding).

Well, anyway you shed a new light on answering this thread, let's just learn from our differences :D
 

SaraSara

Registered
Skipper747 said:
xxx
There is no practical means, for the flight crew, to regulate the temperature in the baggage compartments of passenger aircraft. As I mentioned above, baggage compartments in a typical airliner are freezing cold - I say again FREEZING COLD during flight time. In addition these compartments are pitch dark, and noisy as hell during flight.
I had long wanted to travel with my dogs, and had been told by the vet that flying dogs in the hold was safe. But how could dogs be safe if suitcases are icy cold when you get them?

Once my BA flight was not full; the pilot stood at the cockpit door doing a little public relations and saying goodbye to the passengers, and I had the chance to ask him about it.

He said animals were carried in a special hold, a small one just beneath the cockpit with the same temperature and pressurization as the cabin but no lights.

Could that be true? This was about fifteen years ago, and the plane was a large Boeing. Not that I would ever put a dog on a plane again, but I'd like to know if that was a public relations sweet tale.
 

Skipper747

Registered
Sara -
xxx
Unfortunately - I quote your words "public relations sweet tale"... Exactly that, but that pilot did exactly as instructed to say, and like I used to say myself - "Dear passengers, all is fine, do not worry"...
xxx
Your large Boeing could be a 767, type I do not know much about. I flew 747 for my last 20 years in airline service - from 1987, until 2008. The 767 has electronics under the cockpit. The entire baggage compartments (of any and all airliners) are pressurized exactly like the passenger cabin, and receive circulation of passenger cabin air, which is then finally exhausted overboard through what is called "outflow valves"... but...
xxx
I could give a technical description of the environmental systems of the 747-200 in which animals are placed in "cargo hold nº 1" (the most forward baggage compartment) which is receiving cabin air... but there is no isolation along the walls, and the temperature outside the airplane is generally around -65ºF in flight. It is very cold down there. It is probably more or less ok for the first hour of the flight, but on a long 8 to 12 hours flight. it gets c.c.c.cold as hell... It is not a "special hold"... there is baggage in that hold as well.
xxx
All airplanes are the same, from the 707 and 727 which I flew in the late 1960s and later, nothing has changed for baggage compartments in more modern types. I would say (educated guess) that a dog could be ok... on very short flights of 1 hour duration, as long as the compartment does not get "cold soaked"...
xxx
I wish I had a "vet" among my acquaintances to ask a few questions about the physiology of dogs and cats... and I would love to inform him at same time, what the actual conditions are inside airplane baggage compartments - not as presented by the airline management and public relations, but by aircrews and maintenance staff.
xxx
Well, Sara - "don't worry" -
 

SaraSara

Registered
Thanks for the explanation. I thought there must be a reason why dogs get so terrified when they are put into their crates.

It's been seven years since my dog flew. She's a cockapoo, sweet as anything but not overly endowed with brains - or so I thought.

A few months back I got her traveling crate out of storage to donate it to a local animal shelter. When the poor dog saw it, she peed in the hallway - the one and only time in eleven years that she has peed in the house.

She has flown only a couple of times in her life, but the experience must have been terrifying for her to remember it after so long.

(The plane I mentioned was a twin-engine Boeing, with two seats along each wall, and five in the center)
 

orwellian

Registered
Skipper747 said:
I flew 747 for my last 20 years in airline service - from 1987, until 2008.
Thanks for an interesting thread. I didn't catch it at first. Just to clarify, were you a co-pilot on a 747? Also, you say in compartment 1 it "gets c.c.c.cold as hell". Exactly how cold would you say it can get on high altitudes and on long haul flights? And what do you mean by: "as long as the compartment does not get cold soaked"?
Thanks for clarifying this.

French jurist said:
When answering a thread, some people transfer too their own anxiety in the way they do answer (just kidding).

Well, anyway you shed a new light on answering this thread, let's just learn from our differences :D
You seem like a person who treats his dog as another human by your above comment. It's hard to say though because I don't understand your English very well.
If you own a dog you should know that they can sense when you are e.g sad or mad, so why wouldn't they be able to sense you being anxious? You are supposed to be the pack leader. If the leader is showing fear or anxiety, what message do you think that sends to your dog?
I recommend you read some books about dog training or simply watch a few episodes of the Dog Whisperer.
 

French jurist

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orwellian said:
It's hard to say though because I don't understand your English very well.
And you didn't hear my accent ! "do you have a rum ?" (Chief Inspector Clouzeau)


orwellian said:
If you own a dog you should know that they can sense when you are e.g sad or mad, so why wouldn't they be able to sense you being anxious? You are supposed to be the pack leader. If the leader is showing fear or anxiety, what message do you think that sends to your dog?
I don't own dogs, dogs own me (I have in between 4 to 5 dogs, constantly, rescueing them from the street, especially the old/one eyed/with missing teeths ones).
Attached a picture of Greta who passed away last year : had found her dying, skinny as hell, old, with missing teeths, smelly and ugly down the Recoleta apartment I was then renting (150 sq.ft terrace by the way, good for the dogs !). It probably was the dog of an old lady who passed away (probably the family happily kept the lady's belongings but kicked the dog out...).
I have too some pure breeds as well (Briard, Old english sheperd... Yes, I love my vacuum cleaner).

Nevertheless, I plainly agree that dogs have great empathic senses.
My comment was just related to the fact that no matter the vibes you can transmit before a 13 hours flight : the dog will spend a very hard time due to the cold and so on... I got a bit traumatized seeing how my dog reacted afterwards, so maybe was I projecting my own anxiety too ;)

orwellian said:
I recommend you read some books about dog training or simply watch a few episodes of the Dog Whisperer.
I don't read books yet, still learning the alphabet :p
If the "dog whisperer" show is the one with the trainer of a latino descent, my opinion is that he is a total fraud, even dangerous (way too much violent like pulling very violently leashes and so on... I train my dogs to obey only when I speak with a low voice, if I yell they won't obey)

Few pictures of my dog
(DISCLAIMER : the little black skinny dog is Greta -read above- the day I found her. She gained a lot of weight after, too much in fact, and spent three happy years with me until she died). You can see her too after a few months (yes, it's the same dog !)
 
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