My 72-yr-old neighbor downstairs visited the USA for the first time last month, upon her return we talked at length about how difficult the people are here in Argentina, as now she has somewhat of a reference of what I've had to adjust to. She was absolutely floored when walking down the street in NYC and a young passer-by smiled at her for no reason. Every where she went she had stories about how nice people were, about how in a city as big as NYC people can still walk down the sidewalk without pushing and shoving each other, how some one in a store says "hello, can I help you?" when you walk in, all these things that never pass in BA. I went back to the USA also for a month recently, the first time in 2 years and I was also amazed at how friendly everyone is, and I think it was amplified after living here and having been away from it. Something I never appreciated while I was there, until I lived some place where the people are so coarse like BA.
Common courtesy in Buenos Aires
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These kinds of posts seem fruitless to me. I mean, it's great that your neighbour had a nice time in NYC, but don't forget that often, people see things through rose tinted glasses when they're in a new country, and especially if they're in the wealthier parts of say, Manhattan.
Argentinians also have a tendency to moan and complain about themselves, they criticize and complain about their own standards of behavior, their government, the weather, the police, everything..all of which should be taken with a huge grain of salt...I mean, there's a real danger that you might start believing them! (well, maybe their police and government do leave something to be desired). They also seem to exaggerate just how wonderful life is in the US or in parts of Europe. Well, if it's so wonderful, and life here is so apparently intolerable, why are we here?
I find people here to be friendly, helpful, and, well, I can't ever remember being being pushed and shoved except in a crowded subte. Generally, people here don't push, shove or hassle..and are polite. Usually there's a "permisso?" if someone wants to make their way past you, people line up for buses in a very disciplined way..definitely something that rarely happens in London despite the stereotype of British behaviour.
It's no kindergarten either. There are problems of security, and sometime the level of customer service is so bad that you wonder why anyone goes to the shops, except, possibly, to avoid dieing of starvation. But sometimes, reading threads such as these, I can't help thinking that I'm living in some parallel, essentially benign, non hostile, easy going, informal and (usually) tolerant Buenos Aires. Which is how I find it.
Argentinians also have a tendency to moan and complain about themselves, they criticize and complain about their own standards of behavior, their government, the weather, the police, everything..all of which should be taken with a huge grain of salt...I mean, there's a real danger that you might start believing them! (well, maybe their police and government do leave something to be desired). They also seem to exaggerate just how wonderful life is in the US or in parts of Europe. Well, if it's so wonderful, and life here is so apparently intolerable, why are we here?
I find people here to be friendly, helpful, and, well, I can't ever remember being being pushed and shoved except in a crowded subte. Generally, people here don't push, shove or hassle..and are polite. Usually there's a "permisso?" if someone wants to make their way past you, people line up for buses in a very disciplined way..definitely something that rarely happens in London despite the stereotype of British behaviour.
It's no kindergarten either. There are problems of security, and sometime the level of customer service is so bad that you wonder why anyone goes to the shops, except, possibly, to avoid dieing of starvation. But sometimes, reading threads such as these, I can't help thinking that I'm living in some parallel, essentially benign, non hostile, easy going, informal and (usually) tolerant Buenos Aires. Which is how I find it.
D
Dusty.Hill
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seeker said:
I don't think that communicating is fruitless. You state in your post that Argentine's tend to complain about all things yet when an Expat complains about the very same things they are not fruitful?
~Dusty
citygirl
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Really - while I don't find people rude here, I do think there is definitely a difference. People bump into me *all* the time (women a lot more than men) and never say they're sorry. Again, for me, it's a common courtesy to say excuse me when I am passing someone but I don't find that to be true here. And I don't find people smile a lot at all here. When they're interacting with you, yes but take a look next time you are walking in the street. I would be willing to bet you see a lot of angry looking people (they probably all just got done standing in line at the bank
) And in fairness, I wouldn't describe NY as a city where people smile a lot either.
It used to bother me (especially the bumping into me), now I just shrug and accept it. But I still say excuse me if I inadvertently bump into someone - basic manners IMO.
) And in fairness, I wouldn't describe NY as a city where people smile a lot either.It used to bother me (especially the bumping into me), now I just shrug and accept it. But I still say excuse me if I inadvertently bump into someone - basic manners IMO.
Dusty, there´s a difference between people complaining about themselves, which is incessant in Argentina, and the other kind of complaint so commonly found here. Think about this. Australians often complain about Brits that go to live in Australia and then start complaining that it´s not like home. Their reaction, of course, is.."why don´t you just go back to the UK?".
The reason that I think this meme is fruitless is because you can´t change a culture by forum-moaning. I think that citygirl is right to point out that there are differences. Essentially, you more or less have to accept these differences, because you will go crazy if you don´t. You also have to understand that there will be times that you (and I) will unwittingly cause offence and seem bad mannered to Argentines, simply because culture and ways are different. It´s a two way street of possible misunderstanding.
btw, I wish the women would bump into me
The reason that I think this meme is fruitless is because you can´t change a culture by forum-moaning. I think that citygirl is right to point out that there are differences. Essentially, you more or less have to accept these differences, because you will go crazy if you don´t. You also have to understand that there will be times that you (and I) will unwittingly cause offence and seem bad mannered to Argentines, simply because culture and ways are different. It´s a two way street of possible misunderstanding.
btw, I wish the women would bump into me
Wow- I think this is the first time I have ever heard New Yorkers referred to as friendly. New yorkers are pretty much universally known for our assholeish, always in a rush, generally inconsiderate behavior. I love NYC, but I avoid midtown like the plague- I have been gratuitously punched on the street, have had people shout at me for no reason, and am made generally uncomfortable by all the negativity I feel in the air. Maybe your friend was in brooklyn?? People tend to be happier there. Or the west village? And the only reason sales girls are so friendly is because they have been instructed to ask that of every person who comes in the door. I personally cannot stand it when I am descended upon by the sales people and talked at incessantly until I am forced to say no in such a firm way it almost seems rude.
Does anyone else feel like I am kind of stating the obvious?
Does anyone else feel like I am kind of stating the obvious?
citygirl
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See - I have a different opinion of NYers (and I am one). I don't find us to be particularly warm but I found NYers exceptionally friendly to tourists in terms of giving directions, helping people out, etc. My take was always that NYers don't suffer idiots lightly but for people in genuine distress or lost, they will go out of their way to help. Much more so than in Boston or Chicago where I also lived.
Sorry - small hijack.
And back to basic courtesy - the only thing to do is lead by example. Just b/c people are rude to you (or we perceive their actions to be rude), doesn't mean you/we should engage them back on that level. I don't play my music loud at night or early in the morning, I pick up after my friend's dog when I walk him, I say excuse me, etc. I can't control anyone's behavior but my own. So that is what I focus on. And maybe it will be a positive example for someone else
Sorry - small hijack.
And back to basic courtesy - the only thing to do is lead by example. Just b/c people are rude to you (or we perceive their actions to be rude), doesn't mean you/we should engage them back on that level. I don't play my music loud at night or early in the morning, I pick up after my friend's dog when I walk him, I say excuse me, etc. I can't control anyone's behavior but my own. So that is what I focus on. And maybe it will be a positive example for someone else
