Concerning Argentinas Failure As A Nation

[Pensador]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/03/23/alberto-nisman-argentina-and-the-discourse-of-failure/

 

[Matt84]

I recently heard an Argentine joke from the 1950s about Juan Duarte which can be perfectly adapted to 2015:
Everybody knows N'man killed himself, but nobody knows who done it.

 

[Noesdeayer]

An excellent article.Although the truth of the author's words does,indeed,hurt.,,if the same truth about Nisman's death is ever known,it could be the start of a new beginning for Argentina I hope that this happens for their sake because there are millions of Argentines who trully deserve it.I have spent half of my 72 years here and I can testify to that fact.

 

[sesamosinsal]

Excellent article? It's terrible. The author gets an F. A big fat F.

She essentially blames the government for Nisman's death, when there is no evidence to suggest that. In fact, there is more evidence to suggest that Nisman's entire complaint was based on false premises, thereby making it more beneficial for Nisman to be alive than dead.

The author of the article doesn't mention the massive holes in Nisman's investigation. Let's not forget that Nisman's complaint was initially dismissed by the same judge who charged Boudou with abuse of power in the ex-Ciccone case. In other words, Nisman's complaint was so bad that even an anti-K judge couldn't move forward with it. (PA Pollicita appealed, Rafecas accepted and this week it was dismissed once again.)

The author notes that the protest was organized by "lawyers." NO, the "Yo soy Nisman" protest was organized by Federal Prosecutors who have made no secrets about their opposition to the President. It was masqueraded as an apolitical march to "remember Nisman" (conveniently held at the Plaza de Mayo, with another protest at the Quinta de Olivos - such apolitical spots!) but it was 100% political.

The author writes that "every generation sees Argentina as a failure," but provides absolutely NO proof for such a statement. There's no poll, survey -- nada. A failed country is Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Have your pick. Argentina isn't a failed state, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find an Argentine who'd say that her/his country is a failure. A mess maybe, but a failure? Come on. What an idiotic comment.

Lastly, the claims about democracy being under threat here are completely uncorroborated. The current president was democratically elected by more than half the country in 2011, and currently enjoys an approval rating above 45% (according to both opposition and pro-government pollsters). It was with that approval rating that she won re-election in 2011. People here are free to protest. The newspapers publish whatever they want, including blatant lies in some cases.

Where were these articles in the 90s?

 

[Pensador]

Lastly, the claims about democracy being under threat here are completely uncorroborated.

I do not see Argentina as a democracy I see it as an utterly corrupt croniocracy. Let us call a spade a spade and act like mentally capable men shall we please.

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Argentina isn't a failed state, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find an Argentine who'd say that her/his country is a failure.[/background]

I guess you are living with the elite because seeing children crawling around in garbage bags and dumpsters for food is to me a clear indication of not only a failed nation but a failed culture. Of course things like this to Argentinians are not failure they are part of survival.

Shall we continue Bradley lets debate it out Jr!

 

[Noesdeayer]

Bradly My point was more about the author's histórical synopsis of Argentina's failure to deliver on its initial promising future as seen at the beginning of the last century up until the present.I was not especially referring to Nisman's death.The large number of Argentines who have choosen to emigrate testify to this.
The joke, "Will the last one out of Ezeiza please turn off the light " is well known by everyone here.Theauthor's words ," Long governed by politics of victimiization and of natonal lament" is also true.The U.S.,England,Spain the I.M.F.the international banking system are all against the Kirchnerite socal inclusión model Argentine governments in the last century almost always chose to play " both ends against the middle"and then cry victim. Peron's support of nazi Germanyuntil the last months of W.W.2. Do you know what "Yo argentino" means?Also,Nestorhad the $$$necessaryto buy back most of Argentina's debt but he chose to play the victim and " llorar,llorar y llorar".As the famous Spanish philospher Ortega y Gasset exiled here in 1939 told them, " Argentinos,a las cosas !". " Argentines get down to work !".Inferrng to stop just jaberring on and on as usual.

 

[sleazemerchant]

Argentina is far from a "failed state". The government of Argentina has coercive control and provides basic law and order over the entirety of its territory; basic services such as clean water, electricity, a telecommunications system, public education, a road network, a healthcare system, etc are consistently provided. Argentina is, however, a highly dysfunctional and underdeveloped country as a result of almost 70 years of continuous government incompetence.

 

[Matiasba]

Argentina is far from a "failed state". The government of Argentina has coercive control and provides basic law and order over the entirety of its territory; basic services such as clean water, electricity, a telecommunications system, public education, a road network, a healthcare system, etc are consistently provided. Argentina is, however, a highly dysfunctional and underdeveloped country as a result of almost 70 years of continuous government incompetence.

Until 1970, everything was ok, I mean there was some decadence considering the beginning of the century, but we were very similar to Europe and Australia and Canada. We were far better than Spain, for exapmle, in fact we recieved the last wave of spanish immigration during the 60s. The beginning of the end, the fact that changed everything till now, the barrier, the hit, was the last dictatorship (1976-1983). That was the beginning of an era, it opened lots of gates to the upper classes in Argentina, it allowed them to govern the country as they wish, of course it couldnt be democratically because, unlike today, we had a very politized population, and democratically the got 2% of votes in 1973, so there were tons of reforms and policies that represented the end of an Argentina and the begin of a new one. A clear turning point. We had the first financial crisis of our history in 1981 (the first of the saga: 1981, 1989, 2001), we multiplied our external debt per six, we inverted our status of a "recieving immigration" country to a country that expelled people (first waves of argentine migration to Mexico and Spain, mainly, that continued in the 80s, and in the 2001 crisis). Google "reforma financiera" or "la tablita" or "plata dulce" or "deme dos". Congelamiento de sueldos, ajuste, bicicleta financiera, and of course, everything under blood, under repression, under desaparecidos, under a US imposed government (it wasnt that the US were friendly with Videla et al, it was that they were put there by the US, trained in the School of the Americas, etc, google Operation Condor).

 

[mc kenna]

Argentina is far from a "failed state". The government of Argentina has coercive control and provides basic law and order over the entirety of its territory; basic services such as clean water, electricity, a telecommunications system, public education, a road network, a healthcare system, etc are consistently provided. Argentina is, however, a highly dysfunctional and underdeveloped country as a result of almost 70 years of continuous government incompetence.

When some people speak of Argentina,they are actually speaking of Buenos Aires,, and in some cases the ''good'' part of the city.
Case and point, i ilve 160 km from B A and not 6 km from city hall in Chivilcoy... i had to bring in electricity myself to the tune of 10k US dollars, no sewer , no water service( i dug my own well)even in the case of Chivilcoy, the water service is contaminated with high percentage or arsenic(8 times over the recommended ratio for human use) tlecommunication.. yes i paid a private co. to install internet...... roads , well not exactly kept up .... law and order... haahha ,sorry sorry not even worth mention.. healthecare, still works for now, education works for the sole reason they feed the kids at school and get free books and all needed to actually go to school
So if there's a word not applicable to Argentina in any part of its history is consistency , transparency or continuity
BTW Chivilcoy is not some little hick town in the middle of nowhere

 

[sleazemerchant]

When some people speak of Argentina,they are actually speaking of Buenos Aires,, and in some cases the ''good'' part of the city.
Case and point, i ilve 160 km from B A and not 6 km from city hall in Chivilcoy... i had to bring in electricity myself to the tune of 10k US dollars, no sewer , no water service( i dug my own well)even in the case of Chivilcoy, the water service is contaminated with high percentage or arsenic(8 times over the recommended ratio for human use) tlecommunication.. yes i paid a private co. to install internet...... roads , well not exactly kept up .... law and order... haahha ,sorry sorry not even worth mention.. healthecare, still works for now, education works for the sole reason they feed the kids at school and get free books and all needed to actually go to school
So if there's a word not applicable to Argentina in any part of its history is consistency , transparency or continuity
BTW Chivilcoy is not some little hick town in the middle of nowhere

All those problems you mentioned relate to deciding to domicile yourself in a rural/semi-rural area and are a problem of underdevelopment. There are an abundance of rural areas even in first world countries with unpaved roads, lack of city water, lack of connection to electrical grid,etc.