Considering BA as an early retirement option

[Sdiz.usa]

I have lived here in Buenos Aires Provincia since 2001. (Castelar ) My mother and father are Argenitne, they immigrated to the USA in 1960's I lived there all my life, Dad passed away, Mom.. Parkinson's. Moved here newly divorced to have my mom live out her life here because of health care costs. She passed away, I met an incredible women and am in a wonderful relationship. I began living in Arg. in what I called a bubble(hardly any interaction with real society) . Working a little living with savings a little and that was great. What Mc Kenna (above posts) states is absolutely true, I would add trying to find a plumber or electrician you have to be very selective cause they may rob you. When you have to leave your bubble and interact with main stream society, Arg. can seem to be a jungle. ME, I'm leaving Dec. 28th, 2020 (thank GOD).back to the USA at age 56. The final straw for me was, when I was assaulted gun point, they entered my house robbed me and my wife and left, (mind you I have alarms, the alarm company didn't even notice) I live in a typical middle class neighborhood. Being that the justice system is non existent with these crimes, nothing was done by the D.A. A much better bubble is Capital, rich neighborhoods like Palermo or Recoleta. In these places you can live the parallel universe that Ceviche posted (above) a little easier and society in those areas are a little more "NORMAL". If you want to talk to me, PM me and we can chat on WHATSAPP, why WHATSAPP, because an international calling plan in this country costs an arm and leg and very poor quality.

 

[on the brink]

A much better bubble is Capital, rich neighborhoods like Palermo or Recoleta. In these places you can live the parallel universe that Ceviche posted (above) a little easier and society in those areas are a little more "NORMAL".

Even there, people are robbed at gunpoint. And sometimes killed.

 

[Alpinista]

I have lived here in Buenos Aires Provincia since 2001. (Castelar ) My mother and father are Argenitne, they immigrated to the USA in 1960's I lived there all my life, Dad passed away, Mom.. Parkinson's. Moved here newly divorced to have my mom live out her life here because of health care costs. She passed away, I met an incredible women and am in a wonderful relationship. I began living in Arg. in what I called a bubble(hardly any interaction with real society) . Working a little living with savings a little and that was great. What Mc Kenna (above posts) states is absolutely true, I would add trying to find a plumber or electrician you have to be very selective cause they may rob you. When you have to leave your bubble and interact with main stream society, Arg. can seem to be a jungle. ME, I'm leaving Dec. 28th, 2020 (thank GOD).back to the USA at age 56. The final straw for me was, when I was assaulted gun point, they entered my house robbed me and my wife and left, (mind you I have alarms, the alarm company didn't even notice) I live in a typical middle class neighborhood. Being that the justice system is non existent with these crimes, nothing was done by the D.A. A much better bubble is Capital, rich neighborhoods like Palermo or Recoleta. In these places you can live the parallel universe that Ceviche posted (above) a little easier and society in those areas are a little more "NORMAL". If you want to talk to me, PM me and we can chat on WHATSAPP, why WHATSAPP, because an international calling plan in this country costs an arm and leg and very poor quality.

Sorry to hear about the robbery and your misfortunes. Still, I believe what you are describing is not typical here for most expats (you also mention this). It is more dangerous than most parts in the US and in Europe; if you can afford to live in capital, there are a lot relatively safe neighrbourhoods (although anything can happen). Personally, I would only live in capital or in a very rural area, never in Buenos Aires outside capital.

(hardly any interaction with real society)

Regarding the social interactions: I found it extremely easy here to socialise. I have a lot family, Argentinian friends, I know the people of my neighbourhood, some Expats; so this aspect is even better than back in Europe.

trying to find a plumber or electrician you have to be very selective cause they may rob you.

My experience is (and I have a big project behind, restoring a complete house). Most professionals have extremely poor work ethics, most of them are even work shy. I began doing some stuff on my own now, not because I am particularly good at it. But just if you are trying to make something well, you are already better than most professionals here (obviously electrician and gas man you still need). So it is poor quality you are getting. But I was never robbed or anything. (I must also admit that never expected anything else, so my personal frustration about this was not really high).

For me key of living here in Buenos Aires is to have - one way or another - the ressources (savings, expat contract, working remotely) and don't have to get into the local job market. Those expats I know here and which belong to this priviliged group, they are mostly doing ok (I would even say that most of them probably never would leave Argentina again). The other group who were trying to make a living here are struggling and leaving; the exodus already started even before the Covid crisis.

 

[Alpinista]

on the brink is right, Uruguay is the place to head for if you like "rioplatense" culture and are looking for a retirement location. Essentially you can live tax free on foreign income for 5 years, and with a very low tax rate after that (12%, but any taxes paid overseas can be deduced, so effectively even lower than that). The requirements have been relaxed recently to entice richer people, but they're very, very favourable for anybody who wants to go there and live.

In order to obtain residence in Uruguay, you have to go there and demonstrate "intent to remain" ("animo a permancer"). This would normally mean buying a property, starting a business, or something that demonstrates that you're serious about staying, but in your case, just arriving and enrolling your son in school there would in itself would probably be enough to secure your residence permit.

Montevideo (or inded all of Uruguay) is a more relaxed, cleaner, more stable location than BA.

I don't know Uruguay very well, mostly day trips. Years back I went to Montevideo / Punta del Este. Neither of the two seems very attractive to me.

My questions / my assumption is: Buenos Aires is a great city located in an instable country (to say the least). Across the river you have probably a bit a boring country, but it is stable and does a lot of things right currently (economically, socially, tax wise). Are there expats and Argentinians out there combining the two (i.e. living in rural area, ideally in or near Colonia) and still spend a lot of time in BsAs? How would you do this with kids? (I understand that most private schools are in the Montevideo region)

 

[EL_TIGRE_de_Tigre]

Sorry to hear about the robbery and your misfortunes. Still, I believe what you are describing is not typical here for most expats (you also mention this). It is more dangerous than most parts in the US and in Europe; if you can afford to live in capital, there are a lot relatively safe neighrbourhoods (although anything can happen). Personally, I would only live in capital or in a very rural area, never in Buenos Aires outside capital.

Regarding the social interactions: I found it extremely easy here to socialise. I have a lot family, Argentinian friends, I know the people of my neighbourhood, some Expats; so this aspect is even better than back in Europe.

My experience is (and I have a big project behind, restoring a complete house). Most professionals have extremely poor work ethics, most of them are even work shy. I began doing some stuff on my own now, not because I am particularly good at it. But just if you are trying to make something well, you are already better than most professionals here (obviously electrician and gas man you still need). So it is poor quality you are getting. But I was never robbed or anything. (I must also admit that never expected anything else, so my personal frustration about this was not really high).

For me key of living here in Buenos Aires is to have - one way or another - the ressources (savings, expat contract, working remotely) and don't have to get into the local job market. Those expats I know here and which belong to this priviliged group, they are mostly doing ok (I would even say that most of them probably never would leave Argentina again). The other group who were trying to make a living here are struggling and leaving; the exodus already started even before the Covid crisis.

EXCELLENT POINTS - GREAT POST!

My reply:

It's dangerous and there is crime everywhere throughout the world. Even the "SAFEST PLACES" have horrible events at times. It part luck of the draw and part how well a person looks after themself ... ie Are you making yourself a target? As for inviting a stranger into your home to perform work ... I avoid it at all costs because I hate allowing a stranger to soak in my environment and what may be inside. On the times I have to do this and they are rare ... "I DUMB THE ENVIRONMENT DOWN." Essentially, I remove / put away things of value & interests such that they can not be seen. I have never had a problem, knock on wood, and I partially attribute that to this pre visit practice of a stranger to my home. Also, if you have a few tools, or don't mind acquiring them as you have things to do, there are a ton of resources on line ... such as the tutorial videos on You Tube ... demonstrating how to do just about anything around the house. And, it is satisfying as well as cost effective and faster to be self sufficient. Everyone is different and has different skill sets, but electrical and gas is doable if you take the proper precautions and you prepare yourself with knowledge, but for most people ... it is a forbidden zone.

Anyone (Local or ExPat) who is "SLUGGING IT OUT" in the local job market ... by necessity or choice ... is nutty! And I know that is the great majority of everyone in the country. And I certainly don't mean to offend or demean anyone, but it is really, really hard to tread water, let alone get ahead in Argentina this way for most people. The system is very stacked against you.

On the other hand, if you are able to have an ExPat contract, work remotely or have attained your critical mass (BEST OPTION!) ... Argentina is a paradise. And I truly do mean a paradise to live in. Particularly for those who have achieved their critical mass. You don't care what the heck goes on or happens with the economy ... The Peso can go to 500 for each USD or EUR for all you care ... you have it covered ... and I mean covered. Your only problem is how to figure out what to do with your time.

Lastly ... and I am coming back to this again because I feel it is very important to reiterate ... DON'T MAKE YOURSELF A TARGET! It's all about common sense in how you act, behave, what you say and who you say it to as well as what possessions you allow to be seen or have. It's best to blend in and not stand out. This is where the minimalist point of view kicks in ... A minimalist may have a ton of money in the bank, but they don't go nutty buying everything they see. They have one or two nice things that they enjoy / use a lot and just cruise through life over capitalized, unfazed by being able to afford their consumables.

My 2 cents!

 

[on the brink]

There's no denying that Uruguay can be flat, and boring. Plus, much more expensive than Argentina - about 40% more. But life there is less stressful, more relaxed, and fr more orderly than in Buenos Aires. As I've said before, it's a good country for older people.

Sadly, crime is on the rise - there are no Punta del Este homes without bars, or alarm signs outside. It used to be a city problem, but it is now spreading to the countryside.

My Colonia country place was broken into twice - thankfully, while I was away. By local youths, apparently, who I'm afraid were disappointed - there are no valuables there, so they were reduced to stealing the toaster and the hair drier.

I had an alarm system installed after the first burglary. After the second one, the alarm guy advised me to leave doors unlocked, as replacing a double-pane window would be far more expensive than replacing whatever was taken.

Happily, word must have gotten around that the house was not worth burglarizing, because for the past seven years it has not been robbed.

In Uruguay, the best thing is to look and act poor. Same in Argentina - never fix a car's bumps and scratches - the older and more battered it looks, the better.

 

[Alpinista]

There's no denying that Uruguay can be flat, and boring. Plus, much more expensive than Argentina - about 40% more. But life there is less stressful, more relaxed, and fr more orderly than in Buenos Aires. As I've said before, it's a good country for older people.

Sadly, crime is on the rise - there are no Punta del Este homes without bars, or alarm signs outside. It used to be a city problem, but it is now spreading to the countryside.

My Colonia country place was broken into twice - thankfully, while I was away. By local youths, apparently, who I'm afraid were disappointed - there are no valuables there, so they were reduced to stealing the toaster and the hair drier.

I had an alarm system installed after the first burglary. After the second one, the alarm guy advised me to leave doors unlocked, as replacing a double-pane window would be far more expensive than replacing whatever was taken.

Happily, word must have gotten around that the house was not worth burglarizing, because for the past seven years it has not been robbed.

In Uruguay, the best thing is to look and act poor. Same in Argentina - never fix a car's bumps and scratches - the older and more battered it looks, the better.

When you say 40% more expensive: are you talking about daily living costs? I would assume that real estate is not more expensive than capital?
Country place: does it mean barrio cerrado? (Here i understand that country always means gated community)
And lastly: would you also consider this place for a family with school age kids?

 

[on the brink]

When you say 40% more expensive: are you talking about daily living costs? I would assume that real estate is not more expensive than capital?
Country place: does it mean barrio cerrado? (Here i understand that country always means gated community)
And lastly: would you also consider this place for a family with school age kids?

Hello Alpinista .... just sent you a PM

 

[Ceviche]

WHATSAPP, why WHATSAPP, because an international calling plan in this country costs an arm and leg and very poor quality.

International calling plan is damn cheap here. One of the best I have seen in world travels... I highly recommend "Personal Black" plan.

 

[Ceviche]

I have lived here in Buenos Aires Provincia since 2001. (Castelar ). A much better bubble is Capital, rich neighborhoods like Palermo or Recoleta. In these places you can live the parallel universe that Ceviche posted.

I have a theory about it. If I am migrating into a country and I have to go and live in slum neighborhoods and poverty stricken / crime ridden neighborhoods, I am better off staying back at my home country where I originally come from, which is full of extreme poverty/ extremely violent crime. No need to jump from dangerous tree and fall in in a dirty pothole.

Its worse to migrate to a country and live a low quality life there or be dependent on the local government of a country which is not yours.