Considering retiring in Argentina but have so many questions

[RinoG]

His solution involves wiring yourself your USD in your foreign account to your local account in USD, using ARG stocks purchase/resell to get the MEP rate and avoid pesification. I am not a retired foreigner...

 

[Agribotics]

Now, try to arrange with the seller if they have an account outside of Argentina, you can wire directly to their account. Several purchases, I did it like this so I didn't have to worry about getting the funds into Argentina. It's perfectly legal to arrange that and it's all stipulated on the title deed.

How is the escrow process handled when buying property in Argentina using the above method -- or are the payment to the seller and conveyance of deed to the buyer independent events connected only by trust?

Escrow protects the buyer and seller during the home buying process but how, and who oversees this?
Picture this: Two kids, Greg and Vivian, are on the playground. Vivian says to Greg, “If you let me play with your firetruck, I’ll give you my stuffed unicorn to play with.” Greg agrees and hands over the firetruck, but instead of giving him the unicorn, Vivian runs off with both toys. In this scenario, Greg would have benefitted from having another kid act as a sort of third-party facilitator of this exchange, taking both toys and ensuring that the firetruck was given to Vivian and the unicorn was given to Greg, fair and square.

That’s where an escrow agent comes in. Let’s take a look at how this same concept works on a larger scale for home buyers and sellers.

 

[Ries]

How is the escrow process handled when buying property in Argentina using the above method -- or are the payment to the seller and conveyance of deed to the buyer independent events connected only by trust?

"escrow" as known in other countries doesnt really exist.
you hire an escribano, he writes up the offer and the details.
the seller may negotiate, but eventually, you agree on details.
then you meet in neutral territory- we have done it in a bank, and in the colegio de escribanos more recently.
in that room, you, and your escribano, and any other consultants you may want (once, we had a lawyer, another time a bilingual architect friend or ours) and the seller, and his people, sign all the papers.
The money goes thru a counting machine, and then is divided up- usually one stack to any realtors, one stack to the escribano for their services, one stack to pay off any unpaid taxes, expensas, or loans, and then, the rest to the seller.
The title is what you sign, they sign, and the escribano stamps. Thats what you get, its not exactly a "deed", but its proof of ownership, legal description, and sales document, and the escribano will file it with the city.
It works fine, everybody does it all the time.

 

[Agribotics]

"escrow" as known in other countries doesnt really exist.
you hire an escribano, he writes up the offer and the details.
the seller may negotiate, but eventually, you agree on details.
then you meet in neutral territory- we have done it in a bank, and in the colegio de escribanos more recently.
in that room, you, and your escribano, and any other consultants you may want (once, we had a lawyer, another time a bilingual architect friend or ours) and the seller, and his people, sign all the papers.
The money goes thru a counting machine, and then is divided up- usually one stack to any realtors, one stack to the escribano for their services, one stack to pay off any unpaid taxes, expensas, or loans, and then, the rest to the seller.
The title is what you sign, they sign, and the escribano stamps. Thats what you get, its not exactly a "deed", but its proof of ownership, legal description, and sales document, and the escribano will file it with the city.
It works fine, everybody does it all the time.

Nice explanation. Thanks. The scenario I was curious about though is one in which you wire the money to an account outside Argentina as opposed to divvying up piles of cash with both buyer and seller in the same room:

Now, try to arrange with the seller if they have an account outside of Argentina, you can wire directly to their account.

 

[Ries]

I am describing a closing in Argentina. First you wire the money. Many years ago, I wired money to a bank here, they delivered cash to the closing. Small percentage fee, well worth it, the closing went smoothly.
Then it gets turned into cash that gets piled up and pushed across the table.
Its not one or the other, its both.
I do not know how you fool the government into accepting a sale in which no money is exchanged in Argentina.
I am sure there is some way to do it, but I have never done that.
There would still have to be an official sales price, and that price would have to be recorded in Argentina somehow.
There are intermediate processes, where you pay someones account overseas, and that person gives you cash in Argentina, with no transfer cost, and you use that cash at closing.
But I have no idea how an entire overseas transfer could be dressed up to satisfy AFIP.
For me, it would not be worth the relatively small savings, versus future risk of taxes, penalties, and interest, but YMMV.

 

[Aztangogirl]

"escrow" as known in other countries doesnt really exist.
you hire an escribano, he writes up the offer and the details.
the seller may negotiate, but eventually, you agree on details.
then you meet in neutral territory- we have done it in a bank, and in the colegio de escribanos more recently.
in that room, you, and your escribano, and any other consultants you may want (once, we had a lawyer, another time a bilingual architect friend or ours) and the seller, and his people, sign all the papers.
The money goes thru a counting machine, and then is divided up- usually one stack to any realtors, one stack to the escribano for their services, one stack to pay off any unpaid taxes, expensas, or loans, and then, the rest to the seller.
The title is what you sign, they sign, and the escribano stamps. Thats what you get, its not exactly a "deed", but its proof of ownership, legal description, and sales document, and the escribano will file it with the city.
It works fine, everybody does it all the time.

I was fortunate to buy my apartment during the Macri presidency. I did a transfer from my bank in the states to the seller here in Argentina. In the escribanos office. One tap of send on my laptop and the transaction was complete. Got my keys that day. I paid everyone else in 100.$ bills.

 

[HenryNisental]

I am in the exactly same condition as you. Let me tell you a few things.
As an Argie, you can:
A) Open any bank account here, including one in USD.
B) Obain a DNI, Passport, driver's licence, etc.
C) Purchase any propery you can afford.
D) Make banks transfers from your US bank to your local bank here, using a wire transfer (fee: 50 USD approx)
E) Rent any property you like, including paying in USD.
F) Banco Piano has a plan and accounts for people like you, I think
And lastly
This goverment is as dead as the dodo bird, and the next one (next year), will free the US dollar for good

 

[Rich One]

I don't use PagoFacil. Beginning in January I have seen changes in the forms of payment accepted in my area (Caballito).
RapiPago at Disco/Jumbo: Mon-Thurs cash/debit card accepted. Fri-Sat: debit card only.
RapiPago at WU outlets: Mon-Sat cash/debit card accepted.

Thanks for the data, saved my day.

Went to a Disco market in my area (Uriburu St. Recoleta). Inside is a PagoFacil outlet that accepted a Debit Card.
Next will try RapiPago at the WU outlet.

 

[RinoG]

"escrow" as known in other countries doesnt really exist.
you hire an escribano, he writes up the offer and the details.
the seller may negotiate, but eventually, you agree on details.
then you meet in neutral territory- we have done it in a bank, and in the colegio de escribanos more recently.
in that room, you, and your escribano, and any other consultants you may want (once, we had a lawyer, another time a bilingual architect friend or ours) and the seller, and his people, sign all the papers.
The money goes thru a counting machine, and then is divided up- usually one stack to any realtors, one stack to the escribano for their services, one stack to pay off any unpaid taxes, expensas, or loans, and then, the rest to the seller.
The title is what you sign, they sign, and the escribano stamps. Thats what you get, its not exactly a "deed", but its proof of ownership, legal description, and sales document, and the escribano will file it with the city.
It works fine, everybody does it all the time.

I don't feel comfortable walking around with a bag of money to go to the Colegio de Escribanos. If the seller wants Ben bills, they can meet me where I say and then it is their business how they bring the money away safely.

My first property was paid by bank transfer abroad, sellers were foreigners. We sat at the Escribano's office and everybody was in the room while I arranged the wire transfer from my laptop, followed by a phone call to my bank. I had informed my bank in advance that I was about to make a large transfer on that day to avoid hiccups.
Everybody signed, the seller confirmed they had received the money 1-2 days later, once the period to cancel the transfer had elapsed and the transaction was no longer pending. A week later I went at the escribano office to pick my final deed.

While pushing a stack of money over the table can be suggestive in a movie and it is definitely more immediate than the w/t, it is a big safety risk for both the seller and the purchasers. Of course "here they do it all the time", but it is also the only country where I heard stories of bank employees leaking information to robbers, assault to banks on a transaction day, people being followed (they have your address) etc. As soon as you rent a bank room on a given day/time, they will know that a large amount of cash will be coming in or out of the building. They also have your address on file, so they know where to find you...

 

[earlyretirement]

How is the escrow process handled when buying property in Argentina using the above method -- or are the payment to the seller and conveyance of deed to the buyer independent events connected only by trust?

As others mentioned,

"escrow" as known in other countries doesnt really exist.
you hire an escribano, he writes up the offer and the details.
the seller may negotiate, but eventually, you agree on details.
then you meet in neutral territory- we have done it in a bank, and in the colegio de escribanos more recently.
in that room, you, and your escribano, and any other consultants you may want (once, we had a lawyer, another time a bilingual architect friend or ours) and the seller, and his people, sign all the papers.
The money goes thru a counting machine, and then is divided up- usually one stack to any realtors, one stack to the escribano for their services, one stack to pay off any unpaid taxes, expensas, or loans, and then, the rest to the seller.
The title is what you sign, they sign, and the escribano stamps. Thats what you get, its not exactly a "deed", but its proof of ownership, legal description, and sales document, and the escribano will file it with the city.
It works fine, everybody does it all the time.

When wiring directly to the seller that has an account outside Argentina, keep in mind that when you do it legally, ALL details are specified on the title deed. YOU as the BUYER legally get to select the lawyer (Escribano) to be used for the transaction. All real estate sales in Argentina have to go through an escribano and to protect yourself you can select the lawyer that will be used for the transaction.


As Ries mentioned, there is no escrow used in Argentina. Argentina has a great system where the title deed history is all tracked at the federal level. Any liens or encumbrances will be noted on the title deed history. The most important part is having a skilled, ethical and honest escribano that will check the title deed history to make sure there are no liens or encumbrances on the property.


Almost all sellers will want to do a "boleto" which is a 30% down payment of the property price. Once you do the boleto it's pretty much the point of no return. If you back out you will lose that 30%. If the seller backs out they have to return your boleto and double it to penalize them from backing out of the deal. This locks both sides in.


The times I have wired abroad, all of this was noted on the boleto that both sides agreed to. Then when you're ready to close, you would wire directly to the seller's account outside of Argentina. It is all detailed on the title deed. You have to keep in mind that many sellers even if they have an account outside of Argentina, they won't want to do this as the government doesn't know they have accounts abroad. However, many years ago there was an amnesty where Argentines would pay a small % penalty and wouldn't be in any legal jeopardy so many people have declared accounts outside of Argentina.

Then at closing you simply wire to their account. Your lawyer (escibano) would prepare the legal paperwork and there would be a secondary form that said the title deed transfer wasn't valid until the 2nd document acknowledging that the funds were received was signed. I never had any issues.


This is the best way if you can swing it. But more times than not, people will want to close in cash because they need the cash to buy something else. Most people selling are either upgrading or downgrading to a smaller apartment and they would still need cash.


In that situation, you could use a private bank or one of the institutions like Banco Piano or the others mentioned in this forum. Again, any reputable realtor should be able to refer you to a private banker that can help facilitate the transaction. Or most likely a good escribano can also make the same introduction. It isn't that difficult.
And if you close in cash then typically one transaction (boleto) and one transaction escritura (title deed closing) you take turns doing it at the other person's bank/institution. Yes, the cash is a royal pain in the ass. Even in the times that I wired to the seller, I still had to wire in cash to pay realtors commissions, escribano's commission and various taxes and stamp taxes. Also proportional expenses depending on the day you close.


Ries outlined the process well. I wouldn't want to sign at the colegio of escribanos. I always arranged it to do it in the private bank/financial institution or the normal bank. I always preferred doing it at the bank as the employee of the bank would count the money. Typically you always want to do the final escritura signing at your financial institution and I'd write up in the initial offer that we would do the closing at my financial institution of my choice. Then I would have to do the boleto (30% deposit) at their financial institution.

Seems crazy in this day and age dealing with cash but Argentina was always crazy in this way. It probably always will be with the lack of faith and trust in people/banks but more so probably because locals have much of their wealth in cash not in actual banks in Argentina.