Coping With Currency Restrictions

Exactly like this. Being on foreign currency forces the politicians to make hard choices. Fire public employees (ñoquis), kick people off the dole (planes no trabajar), shut down state companies that lose money (Aerolineas, futbol para todos, etc).

Well, I guess you forgot that this happened here in 2001/2. There was a devaluation PRECISELY because there weren't anymore dollars. They made the hard choices. They cut pensions, reduced salaries, and it worked wonderfully... or not.

To say that Argentina should adopt the dollar at this point is ridiculous. Ecuador can do it because it's a small country, and it's monetary base is essentially backed up by oil and bananas (but mostly oil). In fact, very few countries will even loan Ecuador money without guarantees in barrels of oil:

Este préstamo es adicional a los dos mil millones de dólares que consiguió el lunes pasado con el Banco de Desarrollo de China y el cual estará atado a la venta de un volumen inicial de 72.000 barriles de petróleo por día.

So, USD works in Ecuador because it has essentially guaranteed production of a global commodity that is 1) priced in USD, and 2) that's more fundamental to a functioning economy than anything else (i.e. highly demanded on the market). If it weren't for the oil, it would be impossible to maintain sufficient liquidity in USD, and thus they'd be back to Sucres.
 
And P.S. the president that made the USD official in Ecuador isn't popular in Ecuador para nada. He couldn't even finish his term. You can read all about Ecuador's Domingo Cavallo on Wikipedia: http://es.wikipedia....ki/Jamil_Mahuad

El_Expatriado, if those hard choices included freezing your bank account, I wonder if you'd be such a fan...
 
Exactly like this. Being on foreign currency forces the politicians to make hard choices.

It never ceases to amaze me that anyone can still think like this in spite of the massive evidence to the contrary. For example, right now Greece, Portugal, Spain et. al. could easily grow their way out of their budget deficits if they had the power to deflate their currency, thus increasing exports. Instead the 'tough choices´proposed by the shills at the ECB (or someone like Cavallo here) inevitably seek to find any way they can to bludgeon the demand side of the economy.

The examples of how austerity destroys economies are too many to name, but those of us living here have even less excuse to ignore the plain-as-day history of Argentina, which went from austerity poster child and the IMF's BFF to default and then real recovery.

Nevertheless, this insistence upon ignoring all economic history and fundamentals should not come as a surprise, since there is always a small minority that benefits from each drop of austerity. But worse than those who benefit are the poor schmoes who actually buy into the "philosophy".
 
It never ceases to amaze me that anyone can still think like this in spite of the massive evidence to the contrary. For example, right now Greece, Portugal, Spain et. al. could easily grow their way out of their budget deficits if they had the power to deflate their currency, thus increasing exports. Instead the 'tough choices´proposed by the shills at the ECB (or someone like Cavallo here) inevitably seek to find any way they can to bludgeon the demand side of the economy.

The examples of how austerity destroys economies are too many to name, but those of us living here have even less excuse to ignore the plain-as-day history of Argentina, which went from austerity poster child and the IMF's BFF to default and then real recovery.

Nevertheless, this insistence upon ignoring all economic history and fundamentals should not come as a surprise, since there is always a small minority that benefits from each drop of austerity. But worse than those who benefit are the poor schmoes who actually buy into the "philosophy".

The problem is not austerity or stimulus per se - there are moments when both are appropriate - but the inability to recognize their limits. After the collapse of 2001-2, Argentina had no alternative but Keynesianism, but the current government seems to think that can continue ad infinitum.
 
The problem is not austerity or stimulus per se - there are moments when both are appropriate - but the inability to recognize their limits. After the collapse of 2001-2, Argentina had no alternative but Keynesianism, but the current government seems to think that can continue ad infinitum.

I agree, we've seen time and time again that you need to often spend your way out of a depression or recession but Argentina is in neither.
If you continue to inflate the market with easy access capital, artificial units of measurement, and constant uncontrolled spending you will
simply go down a rabbit hole that is Venezuela right now. I'm not suggesting austerity, I'm simply saying that Argentina needs to rein in what
is causing inflation and assure the markets that it's not going to go full on Zimbabwe.

I believe in government spending 100% but you erase the gains of the poor when every month you lose 2% of your income to inflation
and bread prices go up and up and up. In the short run this might work but all projections seem to indicate that this isn't A) a short term
policy or B ) this problem is going to get worse with inflation slipping in to the 30% territory.
 
The Ks took the policies that stimulated the economy in the short term and seemed to think they could continue them forever. Then when it`s not working they`ll suddenly cut things off -- instead of gradually taking away subsidies, say at a rate of 10-20% per year, they`ll suddenly introduce a 70% increase or more in ABL etc. Yes the gas, the subte, the electricity etc were very affordable, but you can`t jump things so quickly and not have incomes keep up. These subsidies should have been short term with a slow drop off. Of course the one thing they refuse to cut off are their ridiculous public programmes, which are costing the govt dearly. Of course they wouldn't cut them off because it would lead to violence. Look at what happened with the Illia -- 10 families got kicked off of govt land and in retaliance the villa cut off the Illia until the govt paid them off. If the govt cut off their public programmes they'd find their own lives under threat. However millions of people on the govt paycheque have no right to be there. Up the street from us is a casa tomada for instance. Everyday parked out front are 5-10 motos -- all very high end. Through the falling apart shutters you can see not one but 2 plasmas -- the one in the front room is a 52 inch and the one in a room off that is probably 36" (And let's bet that with another world cup year there will be yet another ridiculous Plasma para todos program introduced, because that's what people need LCD tvs, not legitimate jobs and education!). After Christmas there were also a tonne of boxes from Garbarino in the street out front. The guys at the almacen across the street were telling us that the people from the casa tomada come in there and have bragged about all the free money they get from the govt -- they said that three of the guys even have becas for "studying" that they don't even have to present any evidence that they have ever sat in on a course. These guys have the system worked, and those are the precise type of people the govt is wasting billions on. Matias says it is the middle class and above that are going to put Argentina in the hole because of escaping to the dollar. Sorry Matias, I beg to differ, it is the rest of the country that is abusing the govt programmes that will be the nail in the coffin of the Argentine economy.
 
I agree, we've seen time and time again that you need to often spend your way out of a depression or recession but Argentina is in neither.
If you continue to inflate the market with easy access capital, artificial units of measurement, and constant uncontrolled spending you will
simply go down a rabbit hole that is Venezuela right now. I'm not suggesting austerity, I'm simply saying that Argentina needs to rein in what
is causing inflation and assure the markets that it's not going to go full on Zimbabwe.

I believe in government spending 100% but you erase the gains of the poor when every month you lose 2% of your income to inflation
and bread prices go up and up and up. In the short run this might work but all projections seem to indicate that this isn't A) a short term
policy or B ) this problem is going to get worse with inflation slipping in to the 30% territory.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was only slipping into the 30% territory. I have seen numbers for the last year (until the end of November) to be anywhere from 27% to 32% so I'm afraid that by some estimates we've already slipped into the 30% territory. Inflation by the end of 2014 will be somewhere around 40-50% range seeing that monthly inflation rate for December and projected inflation rate for January is around 4%.

http://ar.finanzas.yahoo.com/noticias/golpe-bolsillo-alertan-inflaci%C3%B3n-mes-130505654.html
 
Exactly like this. Being on foreign currency forces the politicians to make hard choices. Fire public employees (ñoquis), kick people off the dole (planes no trabajar), shut down state companies that lose money (Aerolineas, futbol para todos, etc).

Instead in Argentina they just spin up the printing press and take the cowards way out and nothing gets fixed and we all suffer the inflation together. I'd much rather be in a Greece type situation where the politicians have to make hard choices and put things right.
And how is that going in Greece?
 
The Ks took the policies that stimulated the economy in the short term and seemed to think they could continue them forever. Then when it`s not working they`ll suddenly cut things off -- instead of gradually taking away subsidies, say at a rate of 10-20% per year, they`ll suddenly introduce a 70% increase or more in ABL etc. Yes the gas, the subte, the electricity etc were very affordable, but you can`t jump things so quickly and not have incomes keep up. These subsidies should have been short term with a slow drop off. Of course the one thing they refuse to cut off are their ridiculous public programmes, which are costing the govt dearly. Of course they wouldn't cut them off because it would lead to violence. Look at what happened with the Illia -- 10 families got kicked off of govt land and in retaliance the villa cut off the Illia until the govt paid them off. If the govt cut off their public programmes they'd find their own lives under threat. However millions of people on the govt paycheque have no right to be there. Up the street from us is a casa tomada for instance. Everyday parked out front are 5-10 motos -- all very high end. Through the falling apart shutters you can see not one but 2 plasmas -- the one in the front room is a 52 inch and the one in a room off that is probably 36" (And let's bet that with another world cup year there will be yet another ridiculous Plasma para todos program introduced, because that's what people need LCD tvs, not legitimate jobs and education!). After Christmas there were also a tonne of boxes from Garbarino in the street out front. The guys at the almacen across the street were telling us that the people from the casa tomada come in there and have bragged about all the free money they get from the govt -- they said that three of the guys even have becas for "studying" that they don't even have to present any evidence that they have ever sat in on a course. These guys have the system worked, and those are the precise type of people the govt is wasting billions on. Matias says it is the middle class and above that are going to put Argentina in the hole because of escaping to the dollar. Sorry Matias, I beg to differ, it is the rest of the country that is abusing the govt programmes that will be the nail in the coffin of the Argentine economy.


I disagree with you like you do with me. The fact that some people that not have a roof (so they occupied one) can get a plasma and motos is in fact a symptom of wealth. The same as villa 31, that expanded alot, not in space but in height. Most of those precarious houses, that are ilegal as the casas tomadas that we have in a lot of buildings of the city, has now an extra room, that they rent for 1000 pesos month. Remember all this people could not eat in 2001.
The sustained economic growth for ten years allowed lots of people to get a lot of stuffs, if you look to the villa 31 from the highway youll see a lot of Directv antennas, and most of them have very good tvs. Yes it would be better education and quality jobs, but thats very difficult to accomplish, plus the people always choose a PLasma over a degree on something. Villas haave consolidated in the last past 10 years, and that is because they live better there than where they come from, poorer parts of Argentina, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru.
Its n ot that simple to kick them off the casa tomada or the villas (also tierra tomada) you know, basically because Argentina ratified Human Rights conve ntions, and the right of housing is pretty elemental.

People on villas or who live in casas tomadas got a lot of beneffits from Kirchnerismo. Thye dont care about the dollars restrictions or the cepo to import, or the tax to travel abroad, and even with inflation, they got a lot of pesos, they got a lot of plans from the government. Andf also the middle class, the people who went into poverty in 2001 these years bought a plasma, a notebook, a moto, if you go up in the social scale, replace the moto for a car (almost one million brand new cars sold per year, so go picture that 10 millions got a 0km in the last ten years), that without conssiderating the used cars.

So, basically, the situation to the poor have improoved a lot here, thats why they keep cpming from other countries, and the middle class got better too. Now, currently this it must be sshowing its limits, with growing inflation and a very important loss of political power. But Kirchnerismo means 10 years of unsstopping growth, less unemployment, duplicate the middle class, etc. I dont think this will last too much, I believe this is comming to an end, and probably those who got out of poverty will fall again when the recession cycle or devaluation begin.
 
I'm not talking about kicking them out of the villas or out of the casa tomadas, I'm talking about kicking them off of the benefits. Anyone who can sit around and brag about the number of becas they are receiving from the government and are not fulfilling their end of the supposed deal -- ie these guys taking becas for "studying" and then never going to a single class, or the people getting money from the govt while making sure the rest of their salary is hidden because otherwise they'd make too much and get their benefits away -- these are the people that need to be kicked off the benefits and fined -- you know, like in countries that function mas o menos bien like Canada if the govt discovers you've been cheating on your benefits you are fined and have to give back what you were paid.

Obviously the people who got out of poverty will fall again -- you know why? Because instead of finding a job rather than being paid by the government on a plan and improving their lives on their own accord rather than relying on the government longterm, they're going to find themselves with nothing at the end. And the plasma tv isn't going to save them. And Cristina certainly isn't because she will have fled the country with her billions, you know, all that money of hers that according to you she should have been investing into the country. If you want to go after the wealthy in Argentina who hide in the security of the dollars and who take their money abroad rather than keep it in the country, why don't you point the finger at your own president?
 
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