Covid Vaccination Argentina

[Alby]

They told me (and wrote on my vaccine record) "84 days", which of course is 12 weeks. From what I have read, 12 weeks is the ideal time for the second shot of AZ, although some seem to be arguing it should be brought forward to eight weeks to protect better against Delta.

 

[lunar]

Are you saying that actually acquiring additional vaccines ... because of a hypothetical situation that something goes really wrong in a lawsuit and collateral is called in?

I am saying that if you have several options to do something, you should go with the best one. And being in charge entitles you to decide what is the best option and to go with it. Since you don't know what was on the table, you are considering some hypothetical situations and resolving them in your head this way or another. While this may be entertaining, most likely it does not have anything to do with reality.

And what about Covax? and BioNtech?

What about them? One is an international organization distributing the vaccines, another is the original developers of Pfizer vaccine.

So this government (or at least Ministry of Health) does indeed lie to or mislead the public from time to time?

Do you remember who was the previous Minister of Health? Did he lie and mislead the public?

Believing that any government always tells you the truth is naive at least. In the best-case scenario they may be guided by their understanding of public benefit, or they can have some other reasons. But keeping you well informed is definitely not a government priority.

Which stories exactly? Argentine government publications? Statements of directly involved officials? DNUs and laws? Chequeado?

So, you have several voices delivering to you the official government position and something called "chequeado". How is listening to them bring you any closer to understanding what really happened?

... why Argentina has been unsuccessful with Pfizer ... by now but Argentina not ...

Argentina is in a peculiar situation. It is not creditworthy, so it had to find its own special way because options that were available to other countries were not available to Argentina.

I do not understand all this hysteria around the Pfizer vaccine. Yes, it is a very good vaccine. Nevertheless, it is one of many.

It is like running around and screaming why didn't everybody get an iPhone. I have a mid-range Motorola and I am OK with it. It serves the purpose. I am vaccinated with Astrazeneca and I am OK with it.

For some reason, you deny giving the government any credit for 22 million vaccine doses that they got into the country, but blame them for several million that they didn't get. As you like to say it, hypothetically.

 

[zensailor]

Many, many years ago, when I was in class.....and awake.....they drilled the value of research into us...... what they told us was ''if your mother says she loves you, research it''..... seemed a bit extreme at the time.....but......as it turns out.....absolutely correct......and in todays toxic waste pile of (dis)information...necessary.......none of us knows what transpired at tables we were not sitting at.

 

[antipodean]

It seems that when a tiny minority of posters actually make an effort to research something and clearly refer to primary sources of information available in the public domain, even that is not enough. For some, the government is always right, (insert country/ media source) is always evil/ wrong and reality is always subjective, unless its your own reality backed up by your favoured secondary sources.

I am saying that if you have several options to do something, you should go with the best one.

Yet you are in a position to be of an opinion that what the government decided was the best one. Interesting.

Argentina is in a peculiar situation. It is not creditworthy, so it had to find its own special way because options that were available to other countries were not available to Argentina.

Yet Lebanon who has a contract and supply from Pfizer is creditworthy versus Argentina? What is your criteria for creditworthiness and how do you know that this relates to Pfizer and Argentina being in a "peculiar situation", which as you say, you "were not at the table"?

For some reason, you deny giving the government any credit for 22 million vaccine doses that they got into the country, but blame them for several million that they didn't get.

Well done, Alberto and co for 22 million vaccines, really. Now, we still need more vaccines and we need them fast to reduce the rapidly growing amount of deaths, which for me is unacceptably high, so be prepared for criticism until we see overall results that suggest otherwise and match the promises that you made. Clear?

 

[Alby]

Since you don't know what was on the table, you are considering some hypothetical situations and resolving them in your head this way or another. While this may be entertaining, most likely it does not have anything to do with reality.

To inject a bit of levity at this point of the discussion, the following is quite good. Stick with it to the end of the six minutes. Or if not, just jump straight to 5:10 to hear the punchline.

Video: Opinion | The Umbrella Man

On the 48th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Errol Morris explores the story behind the one man seen standing under an open black umbrella at the site.

www.nytimes.com

 

[BostonBucket]

Well done, Alberto and co for 22 million vaccines, really. Now, we still need more vaccines and we need them fast to reduce the rapidly growing amount of deaths, which for me is unacceptably high, so be prepared for criticism until we see overall results that suggest otherwise and match the promises that you made. Clear?

I'd be weary thanking anyone in the government for the vaccines, they've done the bare minimum to actually vaccinate people and the most to look good in the news. Hence the 800,000 people with a single expired dose of Sputnik V reported by infobae last week and numerous other arbitrary decisions they've made: Restricting international flights with the excuse of the Delta variant, when in reality international travel has virtually no effect on the pandemic anymore, not approving PFIZER J&J MODERNA when JXC proposed it, only to purchase it now and take merit for it. Etc. The list goes on.
Thank your hard earned money and the taxes you pay, or even the scientists and the actual companies doing work for the vaccines, not smug politicians.

 

[lunar]

For some, the government is always right, (insert country/ media source) is always evil/ wrong and reality is always subjective ...

I didn't say that the government is always right. I'll explain you how it works in a very simplified way. People delegate certain duties to the government. Like building roads, or defending the country, or buying vaccines. If the government does not do the right job the people can elect a different one.

Right now I have no reasons to believe that you or any of this (insert media source) would do a better job in building roads or buying vaccines or doing anything else for that matter. They are just playing this "Mikey who doesn't like anything".

Yet Lebanon who has a contract ...

Yes. Lebanon has a contract and Argentina didn't. This does not say anything about whether Argentina made a good decision or a bad one. Google for word "resulting".

Well done, Alberto and co for 22 million vaccines, really. Now, we still need more vaccines and we need them fast ...

Is this a royal "we" or you are representing someone? And yes, the government buys Sinopharm, and Sputnik V, and Astrazeneca, and, apparently, now Pfizer as well. In a few months this round of vaccination will be over and a new one will start. How many Pfizer doses will we get then? Oh, my!

 

[lunar]

Hence the 800,000 people with a single expired dose of Sputnik V reported by infobae ...

Expired dose? Really? They could not get the second dose within 3 month. Again, the glass is half-full or half-empty.

Más de 800.000 personas tienen el plazo vencido para la aplicación de la segunda dosis de la Sputnik V

La cifra cuatriplica la cantidad que había hace 10 días. En total, son 6.168.340 los que esperan completar la inoculación de la vacuna rusa, y 7.206.625 la de AstraZeneca o Sinopharm

www.infobae.com

Right now many people in Russia can not get vaccinated and for many working activities vaccination is mandatory.

 

[antipodean]

If the government does not do the right job the people can elect a different one.

Agreed!

Btw I'm now lost in what point(s) you are trying to make after you essentially nullified opinions, news articles or facts in general?
As I poster I highly respect your scientific opinions and information contributed to this thread that have contributed to shaping some of my perspectives on vaccines to date, however when it comes to some related political or commercial matters things suddenly stop adding up and those are the things I will engage you in a friendly debate

Example
antipodean said:
... why Argentina has been unsuccessful with Pfizer ... by now but Argentina not ...

lunar said:
Argentina is in a peculiar situation. It is not creditworthy, so it had to find its own special way because options that were available to other countries were not available to Argentina

antipodean said:
Yet Lebanon who has a contract and supply from Pfizer is creditworthy versus Argentina? What is your criteria for creditworthiness and how do you know that this relates to Pfizer and Argentina being in a "peculiar situation", which as you say, you "were not at the table"?

lunar said:
Yes. Lebanon has a contract and Argentina didn't. This does not say anything about whether Argentina made a good decision or a bad one. Google for word "resulting".

So why bring up Argentina being in a peculiar situation, not creditworthy, and had to find its own special way in the first place? Why respond to only six words out of a sentence and then change the subject to being if Argentina made a good decision or a bad one when that is clearly not what is being asked? Why make a point of saying if we were not at the negotiating table we will never know but then go on to conclude that Argentina had to find its own special way because options that were available to other countries were not available to Argentina?

 

[BostonBucket]

Expired dose? Really? They could not get the second dose within 3 month. Again, the glass is half-full or half-empty.

Más de 800.000 personas tienen el plazo vencido para la aplicación de la segunda dosis de la Sputnik V

La cifra cuatriplica la cantidad que había hace 10 días. En total, son 6.168.340 los que esperan completar la inoculación de la vacuna rusa, y 7.206.625 la de AstraZeneca o Sinopharm

www.infobae.com

Right now many people in Russia can not get vaccinated and for many working activities vaccination is mandatory.

The point is that the decision making makes absolutely NO SENSE, you could have 400,000 people fully vaccinated and protected from the virus, instead, for reasons no one can explain (other than the clear demagogic intent that Fernandez and crew have) they choose to vaccinate 800,000 people total, which helps a grand total of 0 people.

Also, yes quite literally the first dosage can stop having the presence required for full immunity after a certain amount of time. Russia has said 90 days max between doses, and the Philippines' FDA has only allowed up to 42 (Like Moderna). Who's to say that if these 800K people ever get their final dosage, if it will even work. Science says that it won't.
Reuters article on Philippines
No country that I know of has taken this approach, you don't need an epidemiologist to tell you that you should finish vaccinating a certain sector with the full dosage prior to moving on to the next.