Crime sensation and real crime! opinion

[earlyretirement]

The only places safe and liveable in the Middle East are the 5 (out of 6, you've got to be an idiot to want to live in Saudi Arabia) GCC countries. UAE, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, and Kuwait. But there are a lot of restrictions and a lot of encroachment on personal freedoms in those countries and eventually, if you care about personal freedom, the safety against crime is not worth giving up your freedoms for.

The rest of the Middle East is a hellhole that I wouldn't wanna be found in even by accident.

If we're talking about freedoms then compared to the Middle East, Buenos Aires is heavenly!

Yeah, Nico I've just never had any desire to go there. I have several friends that live over there due to work. I remember a few years ago one of my friends went to go work in Yemen. He worked for an oil company and they paid him a small fortune (I think like 3 X his normal annual salary) plus they paid for his mortgage while he lived there.

He was so miserable. He said that he had to stay on a compound, locals didn't like foreigners and it was a miserable experience.

I only compare the quality of life of Buenos Aires to the quality of life of other places I spend significant amounts of time which is the USA.

As you mentioned, I don't care what crime is like in Ghana or anywhere else. I only care how it is where I primarily live which is the USA and Argentina.

 

[fifs2]

The thread is well titled as I for one am media and peer influenced and thereby prone to the sensation of expecting more crime than may be a reality on the streets. 1 week before I returned last month an employee was held up at knife point at Retiro station so even as I packed the bags I brought the gadgets - phone, tablet etc - fully expecting not to use them outside the office or accommodation. I was pleasantly surprised to see even more usage of electronics in coffee shops than last year and as a "tourist" ie someone who no longer had a house, car or children in school I felt relieved of the weight of worry about being attacked as we entered the garage, had the house broken into, or kids targetted etc. I relaxed in the city more than I anticipated even if I was always on guard re handbag snatching and cautious use of gadgets.

Overall I can only say that in Bsas I feel like I have to be in the driving seat re personal security whilst in Europe (Spain) I'm a passenger. In Bsas if a taxi driver uses his mobile mid journey to advise someone of his next dropoff point ie me then it's my responsibility to not fall prey to a possible robbery and to change my destination - as happened this time. In Europe I will sit happily and chat to the taxi driver, not reveal too much personal info but not expect to be robbed. Bsas means heigthened awareness which is tiring but as so many people say here it is far from a crime riddled city like Rio or Sao Paolo. It's a great city - such a shame the govt wont accept responsibility to make it safer in reality as well as stats so that Bsas tourists and locals alike can live untethered by the need to be cautious but not paranoid. We expats will never agree on this subject any more than we will agree on gun ownership in Us..intersting reading of course. Stay safe guys - I'm back in Spain - back in Bsas end of year.

 

[bomber]

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No probs.

 

[bomber]

In Buenos Aires the statistics are NOT accurate. Maybe 5 out of 100 people actually report the crime. If that.

That's a mighty big assumption, where are you getting your figures from?

I was in BA for a year (may head back after a year around south America), and still have friends there obviously. And of all the friends & acquaintances I have, still in BA, both locals and expats, not one has been robbed in BA. Ever. And we're talking maybe 30 people I keep in regular contact with, perhaps half those are locals/residents.

My point being, if your "5 out of 100 people" is from personal experience used to generalise the situation, then my personal experience would suggest the chance of robbery in BA is hugely overrated.

 

[ElQueso]

When talking to many people, what becomes obvious to most of us is that crime is rampant and that almost no one bothers to report most crimes.

Out of twelve crimes that were perpetuated on my direct family (I'm not even talking about friends and acquaintances) the only one that was ever reported was when my older sister-in-law was robbed at gunpoint and they took her entire purse (with her documents, cellphone and 1200 pesos). The ONLY reason she reported the crime was because she lost both her DNI and her Paraguayan CDI and needed a police report to show that they were stolen.

One of two events that I know of that were reported, among my acquaintances, was the cop I know who was brutally stabbed and throat slashed - but he didn't report it himself as he was almost dead when the ambulance and cops came.

People don't report crimes here - there's no reason to. The cops typically don't do one single thing except fill out a report.

Another crime I haven't written about was a home break in of a friend of my older sister-in-law. She reported this one as well. The night of their graduation from cooking school, my sister-in-law's friend was entering her parent's house in Belgrano (where she lives) when she was attacked from behind by two guys. Her parents weren't home. They beat her (didn't rape her) and threatened to kill her when she couldn't give them the combination to her parent's safe. They were in the house with her for an hour, took various items, left her tied to a chair in the kitchen for three hours until her folks got back.

This happened a bit over a year ago. She's still in therapy, terrified to leave her house. I'd actually forgotten about her as I'd only met her a couple of times and haven't seen her since the event.

Either I and most of the people I know (and at least many of the people who are on this website, it seems) live in statistical bubbles, or people who know more than a couple of people and don't know ANYONE who has not even been robbed, not even a pickpocket, are living in a statistical bubble.

Statistical flukes are amazing, eh?

 

[earlyretirement]

People don't report crimes here - there's no reason to. The cops typically don't do one single thing except fill out a report.

That's exactly right ElQueso. I have two friends that are police officers that work in police stations and both have told me that they even are told to discourage people from filling out reports as there isn't anything they can do.

The locals don't typically report anything or fill out a report unless they are forced into it because they lost a DNI, their cellphone got stolen and the phone company is requiring a police report, etc. But most people simply don't.

Bomber, my estimate is only that. An estimate. But I can assure you my estimate is much better than the official statistics the government puts out.

You might have lived in Buenos Aires for a year. I lived there for almost a decade. My kids were born there, I still have family that lives there.

I'm not trying to paint Buenos Aires as a super dangerous place because I don't think that is the case. I think the main point people are making is crime is definitely on the uptrend there and I think we can all agree almost none of the actual people getting robbed/mugged are reporting it. And even then, the statistics of how many robberies there in Argentina are quite bad. So imagine the true #.

 

[lamarque]

When talking to many people, what becomes obvious to most of us is that crime is rampant and that almost no one bothers to report most crimes.

Out of twelve crimes that were perpetuated on my direct family (I'm not even talking about friends and acquaintances) the only one that was ever reported was when my older sister-in-law was robbed at gunpoint and they took her entire purse (with her documents, cellphone and 1200 pesos). The ONLY reason she reported the crime was because she lost both her DNI and her Paraguayan CDI and needed a police report to show that they were stolen.

One of two events that I know of that were reported, among my acquaintances, was the cop I know who was brutally stabbed and throat slashed - but he didn't report it himself as he was almost dead when the ambulance and cops came.

People don't report crimes here - there's no reason to. The cops typically don't do one single thing except fill out a report.

Another crime I haven't written about was a home break in of a friend of my older sister-in-law. She reported this one as well. The night of their graduation from cooking school, my sister-in-law's friend was entering her parent's house in Belgrano (where she lives) when she was attacked from behind by two guys. Her parents weren't home. They beat her (didn't rape her) and threatened to kill her when she couldn't give them the combination to her parent's safe. They were in the house with her for an hour, took various items, left her tied to a chair in the kitchen for three hours until her folks got back.

This happened a bit over a year ago. She's still in therapy, terrified to leave her house. I'd actually forgotten about her as I'd only met her a couple of times and haven't seen her since the event.

Either I and most of the people I know (and at least many of the people who are on this website, it seems) live in statistical bubbles, or people who know more than a couple of people and don't know ANYONE who has not even been robbed, not even a pickpocket, are living in a statistical bubble.

Statistical flukes are amazing, eh?

Sure they are, i'm amazed of how much diference you find between some people experiences and other people, when I hear that so many bad thinks happen to you it really make me think that or you and your friends and expats that has suffer this situations are really bad lucky or you live in a risky situation or well that maybe me and my group of friends and the expats that never suffer a bad incident are really lucky bastard still I always wonder why so much difference in perception between some users and others, that why I open this thread after reading that article that make me really think on how much is real and how much is perception, and what you guys think is the impact of the media. I still wonder my self of how diferent are the experience of diferent people but at least now I have a more info and a better understanding of the situation, thank for the opinions interesting topic to discuss

 

[earlyretirement]

lamarque,

I don't think that the majority of people out there are having super serious issues or anything violent or major. The majority of times at least with my local friends it's petty stuff like:

- Cellphones getting stolen (this is the one I hear about the most)

- Purses getting stolen

- Cars getting broken into (a few friends had their windows broken and stuff stolen, one friend actually had a wheel stolen from the street!)

- Mugged on the subway, etc.


My wife's friend had her window broken while she was at a stoplight in Palermo and a motorcycle thief stole her purse.

But again the police are worthless. A few weeks ago, my sister-in-law's boyfriend had his Iphone stolen. He had the "Find my Iphone" app installed and active on it. He was excited because he figured he could get his phone back. He went to the police and do you know what they told him? They told him that it was too dangerous for them to attempt to get it!

So you can imagine even under that situation going to the police was worthless and a waste of time.

 

[demokritos]

The only places safe and liveable in the Middle East are the 5 (out of 6, you've got to be an idiot to want to live in Saudi Arabia) GCC countries. UAE, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, and Kuwait. But there are a lot of restrictions and a lot of encroachment on personal freedoms in those countries and eventually, if you care about personal freedom, the safety against crime is not worth giving up your freedoms for.

The rest of the Middle East is a hellhole that I wouldn't wanna be found in even by accident.

If we're talking about freedoms then compared to the Middle East, Buenos Aires is heavenly!

I've lived in Syria and Egypt, have family in Jordan, all over the levant, gulf & north africa. Syria & Egypt were both extremely safe before their civil wars. I'm sure you have your reasons for considering the entire region a "hellhole", but street-level crime should not be one of them.

 

[nicoenarg]

I've lived in Syria and Egypt, have family in Jordan, all over the levant, gulf & north africa. Syria & Egypt were both extremely safe before their civil wars. I'm sure you have your reasons for considering the entire region a "hellhole", but street-level crime should not be one of them.

That is why I said "safe and liveable". But yeah, its a personal preference, not a global survey that seeks to please everyone.