Cristina asks AFIP to investigate man who commented for newspaper article

nicoenarg said:
Its a fallacy to call this government democratic. ...
Dictatorship on the other hand is a more apt title for the Argentine system.

In my opinion, democracy has no value, what matters is liberalism (not in the US politically distorted meaning of the word, but in its original meaning!). Liberalism assumes that first and foremost, the rights of individuals should be respected. Democracy is a consequence of liberalism, because the best known system to respect the rights of individuals is to elect representatives and not reelect them when they screw up. In the West, we do not have just democracies, we have liberal democracies. A democracy without liberalism where they manipulate election results or they bully the opposition is not worth very much.

Next to liberalism, there are 2 other ideologies coming from Europe: communism and fascism. Communism says that "everyone is equal" (but some are more equal than others). Fascism says that the group (and its leaders) are more important than the individual. The peronists are fascists and if I remember well Cristina made clear that she wants to follow a third way (next to liberalism and communism) and deepen her model. At least she is sticking to her promises.

So I think in fact you expect a liberal system as in the US, whereas Argentina tends more towards a fascist regime, which is authoritarian indeed.
 
i agree with you toongeorges.
There is a lot of missunderstanding because many expats doesn t understand how fascist this country is but with a super liberal national constitution.
That is because the italian immigration after the WWI.
Regards
 
i disagree about the court inneficiency regarding the enforncing of contracts. Expats usually forget that here is another law, another juridic system and contracts that doesn t respect the law cannot be enforzable. Sign a slavery contract in the US and try to enforce it at NYC.
Regards
 
Bajo_cero2 said:
I agree partially.

The State needs the dollars to pay for imports but we have a distorted economy because people treasure the dollars and there is a distorted lack of them in the central bank.

But people buy dollars and keep them under the matress or they used to buy real state, the best 2 ways to evade paying taxs.

Now, people has pesos and they must invest them otherwise they loose money because of inflation. The main problem of this country is that, intead of investing in opening a factory for producing goods that creates work for people, taxs for the State and income for the country when they are exported, people plays the bicicleta financiera, they gamble with money buying or selling dollars and that s how the economy got destroyed so many times.

The other big issue here is that people doesn t pay taxes and that s why they need to print money, if people starts paying taxes, the economy works better, this is basic.

What the President is doing is smart and she has big balls because if she is success, the cyclical economic crisis are over.

Of course, we don t have to agree, just to respect our different point of view.

Regars

Bajo_Cero is right about a lot of what he says here. The real estate market is one of the biggest sources of tax evasion in the economy. I'm not just talking about illegal tax evasion, however. I am also talking about legal tax evasion. I am of the view that this is done by design for the benefit of these same political leaders. Many Argentines have told me this as well. The ruling class of this country has created themselves loopholes where they can continue to evade taxes.

Let's take a look:

1. Individuals have no capital gains tax (a tax on the increase in the value of property). I can buy a house today for $100,000 USD and sell it tomorrow for $200,000 USD and I pay no tax on that gain. In most developed countries this benefit is only given for the family home. Here in Argentina you have this benefit on all real estate, including raw land.

2. There is no VAT tax on residential real estate rentals. I can buy as many properties as I want, I can rent them to you and there is no VAT on the rent. The fact that property owners don't have to pay VAT when they rent their apartments means that they evade every single other expense on their residential real estate (i.e. workmen, materials, etc) because they have no use for VAT credit. Usually they collect rent in cash and don't pay income tax on the rental either.

3. Purchases are made in cash. Just the fact that you have to go hand cash over the table for a real estate purchase is insane. This leaves much room for evasion because I can pay $125,000 for a property, but in the escritura I just put whatever I want... $100,000 for example. By doing this I not only avoid paying the full tax on the transfer of the property, but I also get to "blanquear" my money. I spend $25,000 in undeclared money and when I go to sell that property later, those funds will be transformed into declared funds. If I had to pay capital gains tax on the increase in value of the property, no one would want to declare a lower value because it would mean more taxes when they went to sell. However, since property transactions are done in cash, there is no way to control how much was actually paid.

The problem with the Ks is that they don't want to eliminate the evasion because that's the principal source of wealth for them and the rest of the ruling clan. They all got sweetheart patagonian land deals and made millions 100% tax free on the gains they got from buying their land cheap and selling for millions.

Instead, the solution is to introduce things like the COTI which tries to control that the final price in the escritura is similar to the price in the advertisement. But this doesn't help at all. If they really wanted to end tax evasion on real estate there would be a capital gains tax. Once you do that, everyone would declare the real value of the property because in the future they wouldn't want to pay extra income tax. They could also put VAT tax on residential rentals and then refund the 21% VAT to low-income renters. It would be a subsidy. But again, they would never do this because all the political class has real estate and they evade taxes with it.
 
Bajo_cero2 said:
i disagree about the court inneficiency regarding the enforncing of contracts. Expats usually forget that here is another law, another juridic system and contracts that doesn t respect the law cannot be enforzable. Sign a slavery contract in the US and try to enforce it at NYC.
Regards

Again, I have to disagree. Coming from the US, I can tell you that if I have a dispute with any business (for under $5000) I can take them to small claims court myself, with no lawyers, and the cost to me is about $100. Within 30-60 days I get a magistrate to hear my claim and he decides the verdict the very same day. In the USA I successfully sued PayPal in small claims court for $2000 for a dispute I had. I never once had to call a lawyer. Imagine taking MercadoLibre to court here in Argentina to recover $8000 pesos, forget it!

For normal (high value) civil claims, World Bank data shows that enforcing a contract takes 590 days in Argentina, whereas it takes 300 days in the United States, half the time.
 
Bajo_cero2 said:
I agree partially.

The State needs the dollars to pay for imports but we have a distorted economy because people treasure the dollars and there is a distorted lack of them in the central bank.

But people buy dollars and keep them under the matress or they used to buy real state, the best 2 ways to evade paying taxs.

Now, people has pesos and they must invest them otherwise they loose money because of inflation. The main problem of this country is that, intead of investing in opening a factory for producing goods that creates work for people, taxs for the State and income for the country when they are exported, people plays the bicicleta financiera, they gamble with money buying or selling dollars and that s how the economy got destroyed so many times.

The other big issue here is that people doesn t pay taxes and that s why they need to print money, if people starts paying taxes, the economy works better, this is basic.

What the President is doing is smart and she has big balls because if she is success, the cyclical economic crisis are over.

Of course, we don t have to agree, just to respect our different point of view.

Regars

I disagree with a lot of this. My general view is that rather than a heavy handed / aggressive approach of the government to achieve its objectives, it needs to attack the root of the problems.

First point, people treasure the dollars because there is no trust with the pesos. This is basic economics, because of (hyper)inflation and a historically devaluating currency (which is linked to inflation as well) is why people run to dollars. Unsurprisingly, the government prefers to ban dollar purchases & continue printing money.

Why would you invest domestically in business (factories you use the example)? Its simply not attractive to invest domestically, corruption, red tape, high taxes, not to mention the key which is the uncertainty due to constantly errrm "evolving" regulations driven by government. Any investment project in a country such as Argentina has risk factors attached which deter not promote investment.

Next point, the government prints money because people dont pay taxes? But I thought taxes were so high in this country because too many people dont pay them? You cant have it both ways. Printing money is irresponsibility at its highest. It prints money because its spending what it doesnt have. But then again, it needs the money to fund its populist programs.

I dont believe the president is smart, but what do you judge her intelligence and economic success on? How is she going so far? Given the economy is likely to enter a recession (if not already) is she still doing a good job? This is all with record commodity prices / commodity boom over the past few years, in a commodity driven economy.
 
trennod said:
First point, people treasure the dollars because there is no trust with the pesos. This is basic economics, because of (hyper)inflation and a historically devaluating currency (which is linked to inflation as well) is why people run to dollars. Unsurprisingly, the government prefers to ban dollar purchases & continue printing money.

This is correct. The problem is that the Argentine peso does not have the properties of MONEY. Money must have the following properties:

  1. Unit of account
  2. Medium of exchange
  3. Store of value

The Argentine peso is not a store of value. It devalues 10-12% per year against other currencies (like the dollar) and 20-30% per year against durable goods being sold in Argentina. With the appearance of the "dólar blue" the peso devalued 30% in just a few months.

When Argentina is able to convert the peso into a store of value for at least 10-20 years, I think they will finally be able to stop depending on the dollar. Until that happens, Argentina will always be a country with two currencies -- the peso for small day-to-day transactions and the dollar for long-term contracts and important purchases.
 
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