Democratic Primary Debate Tonight Live 9PM Buenos Aires time.

[Jimbob]

Free healthcare for all, that is the sign of a modern country looking after its people.

 

[Pensador]

Every day more and more immigrants enter the US. The old values disappear and they are replaced with the values that the immigrants of failed countries bring to the US. Corruption will continue to increase in the US until it becomes similar to south america if not worse. It's sad to see such a great country disappearing.

I immigrated to South America totally new culture my values have not changed one iota. Do you think the immigrants bring corruption? Wake up Fallen many are fleeing the results of American corruption in action in Central America and other locations. Do you really think the immigrants corrupted Trump? Ufff you can not fix and I will not say it but you all know what I mean.

 

[TheDonald]

Free healthcare for all, that is the sign of a modern country looking after its people.

Here's a question. It's a loaded question, but it still a question.

If people are going to advocate for an economic philosophy, shouldn't they understand economics?

Or is it just enough to want free stuff?

 

[Jimbob]

Not quite sure what you are trying to get at, you mean to say that the US is poorer than say Argentina who provide free healthcare for all its citizens?

To simply say healthcare like it was a free holiday shows a serious lack of empathy for others not as well off or privileged.

Are you suggesting I do not understand the economics of the situation? Or is it just a good soundbite which elevates yourself with frankly little substance to what you say?

 

[steveinbsas]

Not quite sure what you are trying to get at, you mean to say that the US is poorer than say Argentina who provide free healthcare for all its citizens?

Not sure where you get your information, but the assertion that Argentine provides free healthcare for all its citizens is factually incorrect.

It is not necessary to be a citizen to access "free" healthcare at a public hospital in Argentina or at doctor's offices in the city of Buenos Aries if one is enrolled in the plan that offers those services without charge to the patient. Residents who are not citizens are also eligible.

If all Argentine citizens were receiving "free healthcare" how can we explain the existence of private companies such as Omint, Medicus, Swiss Medical, OSDE, etc? The fact that many individuals receive their coverage through their employer and don't pay directly for their healthcare doesn't make it free.

Jantango started a thread about "free healthcare" for all residents of the city of Buenos Aires and as long as it continues, it sounds like an attractive alternative to having to go to a public hospital to seek medical attention, at least when it comes to seeing doctors for check ups and tests.

That plan sounds a lot better than having to go to the public hospital at six in the morning to get in line to make an appointment to see a doctor the following day...if one is avialble. That's what is necessary where I live.

To simply say healthcare like it was a free holiday shows a serious lack of empathy for others not as well off or privileged.

There are many (millions?) of Argentine citizens and residents who are "well off" and/or "privileged" enough (through their work) to have private healthcare in Argentina and would shrink in horror at the thought of having to seek it at a public hospital. I know that the public hospital in Punta Alta has three categories of income level to determine who has to pay for healthcare services, how much they have to pay, and whether or not they will receive medications without charge.

For example, an individual with a present income of $20,000 ARS (about $350 USD) per month will have to pay a nominal fee for blood tests, x-rays, electrocardiograms, etc, but (as far as I know from my own experience) there is no charge for emergency attention or surgery and they are not entitled to "free medications"dispensed at the hospital.

Are you suggesting I do not understand the economics of the situation? Or is it just a good soundbite which elevates yourself with frankly little substance to what you say?

It's not clear if you do understand he economics of the situation. Nothing is free. The healthcare that some individuals receive without charge (without paying for) must be paid by someone else. If it isn't, the doctors won't show up at the hospitals and the pharmaceutical companies won't deliver the medications. The gas and electric bills won't get paid and the medical equipment will not be maintained or upgraded.

PS: I hope this post provides enough "substance" to elevate your understanding of the reality of "free healthcare" in Argentina.

 

[Jimbob]

I would love you to point me in the direction of information that it is factually incorrect as please don't take offence but your comment as to why private healthcare would be available alongside public healthcare really does not stack up. In the UK the NHS is completely free to use, I and many others can decide to pay to go privately which I used to do.

 

[deadOA]

Freebies as health care, education, drinking water, good wages, Henry Ford capitalism ... BAAAAD.
Freebies as guaranteed $US700 billions bailout, zero tax on $150 billion, vulture greedy ... GOOOD.

Not complicated.

 

[TheDonald]

Not quite sure what you are trying to get at, you mean to say that the US is poorer than say Argentina who provide free healthcare for all its citizens?

To simply say healthcare like it was a free holiday shows a serious lack of empathy for others not as well off or privileged.

Are you suggesting I do not understand the economics of the situation? Or is it just a good soundbite which elevates yourself with frankly little substance to what you say?

I don't recall mentioning healthcare. I mentioned "socialism." If you plan to respond to further posts, please read with greater attention.

However, I will deliberately take your bait for the sake of argument. Steve eloquently described some of the problems with "free" medical care. It is a tempting concept, but "free" anything creates significant distortions and inefficiencies in the market. In Steve's penultimate paragraph, he states it well, "Nothing is free."

The reason I laugh at most socialists is because intuitively, they know nothing is free. They adopt socialism because they stand to take more than they give. In other words, these are people who pay no or minimal taxes and feel envy at their wealthier neighbors. They aren't espousing an economic philosophy, they just want free stuff. That's why I always challenge them to explain the economics of socialism to me. Cuz socialism, at its heart, is an economic theory. Not a political one. No socialist I have ever met, including on this forum, can explain socialism. They simply respond as you did, "Free healthcare."

Below is a quote from this morning's Bloomberg. It pertains to your issue:

(Bloomberg) -- Elizabeth Warren took a lot of flak at this week’s Democratic presidential debate for being evasive about the taxes needed to pay for the $30 trillion Medicare for All plan she champions. There’s a reason for being vague: Her team hasn’t yet figured out how to pay for it. “Her taxes as they currently exist are not enough yet to cover fully replacing health insurance,” University of California, Berkeley economics professor Emmanuel Saez, who advised the Warren campaign when developing the wealth tax, told Bloomberg News on Wednesday.

 

[deadOA]

I don't recall mentioning healthcare. I mentioned "socialism." If you plan to respond to further posts, please read with greater attention.

However, I will deliberately take your bait for the sake of argument. Steve eloquently described some of the problems with "free" medical care. It is a tempting concept, but "free" anything creates significant distortions and inefficiencies in the market. In Steve's penultimate paragraph, he states it well, "Nothing is free."

The reason I laugh at most socialists is because intuitively, they know nothing is free. They adopt socialism because they stand to take more than they give. In other words, these are people who pay no or minimal taxes and feel envy at their wealthier neighbors. They aren't espousing an economic philosophy, they just want free stuff. That's why I always challenge them to explain the economics of socialism to me. Cuz socialism, at its heart, is an economic theory. Not a political one. No socialist I have ever met, including on this forum, can explain socialism. They simply respond as you did, "Free healthcare."

Below is a quote from this morning's Bloomberg. It pertains to your issue:

(Bloomberg) -- Elizabeth Warren took a lot of flak at this week’s Democratic presidential debate for being evasive about the taxes needed to pay for the $30 trillion Medicare for All plan she champions. There’s a reason for being vague: Her team hasn’t yet figured out how to pay for it. “Her taxes as they currently exist are not enough yet to cover fully replacing health insurance,” University of California, Berkeley economics professor Emmanuel Saez, who advised the Warren campaign when developing the wealth tax, told Bloomberg News on Wednesday.

Freebies as health care, education, drinking water, good wages, Henry Ford capitalism ... BAAAAD.
Freebies as guaranteed $US700 billions bailout, zero tax on $150 billion, vulture greedy ... GOOOD.

Not complicated.
Don´t need degree in economics.
The latter freebies are GOOD.
VERY GOOD.

 

[London2Baires]

Here's a question. It's a loaded question, but it still a question.

If people are going to advocate for an economic philosophy, shouldn't they understand economics?

Or is it just enough to want free stuff?

Funny you should say that. You give the impression that you have some sort of formal academic understanding of economics, yet you often comment on what are clearly political sciences and social sciences based issues.

I wonder why you dont't apply your, convinient, reasoning to yourself?

(Please don't actually answer me, my question is rhetorical and answers itself)

PS: unless you've studied formal logic, tecnical rhetoric, and the modalities of forum dialogue (to at least post grad level) In which case you are allowed to answer me.

Cheers!