Devaluation Thread Continued

Agree on everything except on "ever". It will happen at some point in the next 50 years (maybe sooner, within 15/20 years). Then the solution will be a caveman's one (my mace is bigger than yours).

US have defaulted (by proxy) quite a few times during the past 200 years (like 5 or 6)
We been through this one before and there has never been a true default. However if there a true default, you do not want to be on the same planet. The caveman analogy would be the best case scenario.
 
When most governments (other than banana republics) print money for deficit spending, they issue bonds (sovereign bonds, gilts, treasury bonds, etc.) to back up that debt. Otherwise inflation would ensue, even Keynes would be on-board with this. Your Econ 101 appears a little rusty...
Bonds are a form of debt. The US issues bonds that are purchased by China, Japan, etc. If the USA at some point decides not to honor the interest payments, i.e. default, most - if not all economists - anticipate a global economic maelstrom like none of us have ever seen.
You seem to be suggesting that deficit spending is perfectly fine because the government can print money freely. Taken to it's logical conclusion then the government can all give us a guaranteed income of a million dollars a year.
I do remember Econ 101 (all too bloody well). The first question we ask is "What is money?" Then we learn the difference between commodity currencies (eg gold standard) and fiat currencies (eg US dollar, Arg Peso, etc.) You are confusing the two.

If, for example, the US issues bonds when deficit spending, what are those bonds payable in? Gold? No. in printable USD. So it's a can they can keep on kicking down the road, until (as others have pointed out here) people decide the currency is no longer worth what they say it is. Want payment on those bonds? OK here let me print up some benjamins for you....

Therefore, the basic difference between a commodity currency and a fiat currency is the limits on issuance: with a commodity currency, issuance is limited by hard reserves (eg gold). If a govt wants to print out more money than it has gold, then it must borrow against future generations' ability to repay. On the other hand, a fiat currency's limit is not a gold reserve, but the amount of confidence in the currency (ie inflation). The government can print as much as tickles its fancy, but doing so runs the risk of inflation. Thus the govt with the fiat currency could give everyone a $1 m guaranteed salary, but what would happen to aggregate prices? Again the difference is what are the limits on issuance.

You remember that video you posted by Sen. Everett Dirksen? The reason why he could complain in the 1950s about eventually having to pay for all the deficit spending was that he was working with a different currency: gold-backed USD. In 1971,* the US abandoned the Bretton Woods system and made its currency 100% fiat. His question no longer applies because the currency has changed.


* This is probably why Frenchie was the one to remember this event. It was the French that sent a battleship to the US to collect gold on its dollars when the US defaulted on its currency obligations in 1971.
 
Some years ago I came to place that I realized that I really do not own anything I have just be conditioned to think that. The money in my pocket actually belongs to the government that printed it. In the US if my house is paid for and I cannot pay the property taxes they will take that away. Not sure how that works down here. Further the government is also more than willing to put debt on me that is not mine either.

As Henry Ford put it...

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
 
* This is probably why Frenchie was the one to remember this event. It was the French that sent a battleship to the US to collect gold on its dollars when the US defaulted on its currency obligations in 1971.

De Gaulle sent the ship full of dollars in 1967 (If only he was still alive & in power...).
More recently, Germany tried to get back his gold from the Fed... Unfortunately the Gold can't be seen & given back. Ponzi scheme anyone? :p
 
Frenchie, where do you get that date? (you might be right for all I know). David Stockman cites it as mid-August 1971 (as cited here in The Guardian and HuffPost).
 
De Gaulle sent the ship full of dollars in 1967 (If only he was still alive & in power...).
More recently, Germany tried to get back his gold from the Fed... Unfortunately the Gold can't be seen & given back. Ponzi scheme anyone? :p

I think they put the gold with those weapons of mass destruction they were looking for about 10 years ago.
 
Frenchie, where do you get that date? (you might be right for all I know). David Stockman cites it as mid-August 1971 (as cited here in The Guardian and HuffPost).

Seems De Gaulle started converting dollars into Gold in 1964 (some other sources like this one mention since 1958, but this is a site by bozos from the extreme left, not reliable enough http://www.alterinfo.net/De-Gaulle-l-or-et-le-Dollar_a80554.html ).

Here's a press conference in 1965 where he explicitly mentions the US scam = http://fresques.ina.fr/de-gaulle/fiche-media/Gaulle00105/conference-de-presse-du-4-fevrier-1965.html

Also seems that he took back the gold little by little (1965 & the following years, until Nixon simply decided not to give back the gold anymore...)
 
Frenchie, where do you get that date? (you might be right for all I know). David Stockman cites it as mid-August 1971 (as cited here in The Guardian and HuffPost).

The Huffpost also quotes 1967 for one of those round trips by a French battleship -> http://archives-lepo...a-dette-us.html

Finally a solid source, indeed, France started converting USD into gold in 1960

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/ecofi_0987-3368_1993_num_26_3_2015

IMF stats show that France doubled its gold reserves in 1960, mostly by exchanging its reserves in USD for gold (source: The Journal of Commerce, Nov. 4 1960).

So France did that from 1960 until 1971 (well done De Gaulle!)
 
IMF stats show that France doubled its gold reserves in 1960, mostly by exchanging its reserves in USD for gold (source: The Journal of Commerce, Nov. 4 1960).

So France did that from 1960 until 1971 (well done De Gaulle!)
Indeed, not bad for being penniless in 1945 to wealth in 1960. How did the French do that?
 
We all know that politicians print money to goose the economy prior to their elections. But when you look at the origins of fiat money/money printing it often got its biggest push from financing wars. Both Britain and Germany went off of the gold standard in order to finance WWI. What was the point of WWI by the way?

Remember when Bush was asked what the people should do to support the Iraq war effort:, he replied, "go out shopping!". Yes you can support the war effort by buying Chinese goods with freshly printed fiat currency back by bonds bought by the Chinese... And if we need more money to pay the interest on the bonds, we'll just print that. This couldn't end badly could it? Do fiat currencies ever fail?

Argentina.jpg


argentina-334.JPG
 
Back
Top