Dollar/Rent Frustrations!!! ARGH!

[el_expatriado]

Also here.
So in general, if an apartment is being offered at a dollar amount, but they might accept pesos (most likely near the 6 rate), is it better to take pesos you get from the atm, bank, etc. and get dollars at an exchange house to pay or just pay in pesos?
Possibly you have more control over the exchange rates you get if you change pesos into dollars each time versus the unknown requested exchange rate by the landlord if they would be taking peso, which surely would be fluctuating. One set amount in dollars might seem more simple, if even involving an extra step of going to an exchange house (better rates, and atms are not giving out dollars, besides, lower rate).
General consensus?

The problem is the exchange house won't buy your pesos. That's what generates this problem for most expats.

 

[davonz]

Arghhhhh, why are people so pincha pelotas here? I am obviously not going to accept paying rent at almost 6,20 when its such a renters market (IMO) at this time.

You are correct that it is a renters market. I would be looking for another place. You shouldnt have any problems. 3 months ago i managed to negotiate down from US$700 to US$500 for a 35sqm studio in palermo for 3 months including cable internet and TV. There is alot of empty apts around, and the tourist numbers have dropped so demand is low.

I dont put up with this sort of stuff because you dont know what other little surprises the owner might have in store for you.

 

[Sockhopper]

Seek proper advice from an Argentine lawyer first. Usually the official rate within the country where foreign currency is obtained by the payor applies.

I just doubt that a court anywhere would support any domestic landlord suddenly claiming that a new term applies after a residential lease has been signed and no statute requires this term to be implied into that lease.

Also, no landlord has the right to dictate or interfere with which third party a tenant deals to obtain his rent payment in an exchange transaction that's completely separate from his residential lease. The landlord has no say in this at all. Which legal exchange place you use is entirely at your own discretion, no one else’s. It certainly isn’t at the discretion or influence of someone to whom you owe money for a good, service or lease! The exclusive right to decide with whom you contract is a basic and important civil right of every individual in a democracy.

There's no doubt that this landlord has distinctly attempted to stop this tenant from exercising this civil right. The landlord did exactly this when he demanded that this tenant pay his rent in accordance with an exchange rate that can only be obtained from ‘Xoom’ or alternatively by dealing with someone in the black market! No contract term can be enforced that subjects someone to risk his safety or commit a crime!

It’s certainly unfortunate that the tenant shared his personal financial info with his landlord because this opened the door to this landlord trying to obtain an undue benefit likely not owed him by anybody. But however the tenant came to disclose so much doesn’t infer in the least that he’s now under an obligation to compensate for his error out of shame or whatever to obey the landlord’s new demand for more pesos. Nor does it require him to move house and incur other costs to escape harassment by this landlord should that continue. He sorely needs good Argentine legal advice, not guessing at a time when so much has changed and continues to. He has an obligation to himself to make a properly informed decision. He needs to obtain this information in a timely manner to know that what he decides will be right and legal, no more and no less.

 

[YanquiGallego]

Thanks for the advise, just to clarify however, I did not ¨disclose¨ that I was getting an advantageous exchange rate via Xoom. The exchange rate on Xoom can be viewed by anyone to whom you are sending money to (actually, anyone in general can check it out, without even being a member of Xoom)

Secondly, I will add, I am sick and tired of the shady wheelings and dealings in BA real estate/rentals. With all due respect to everyone who is an owner and leases under more favorable and ethical conditions, of course. I understand that BA is a major Latin American capital city, BUT it is still a capital city of a 3rd world country, there is no justifiable reason IMO why a luxury 3 bedroom apartment in Mexico City's luxurious Polanco district (which blows Recoleta and even Puerto Madero out of the water, IMO) costs a lot LESS and has more favourable rental conditions (IE: the rental is in Mexican pesos--even for short term rentals) than a 1 bedroom in BA's Palermo!

I am paying the same amount of money for my Palermo 1 BR loft which is in a nice building with decent amenities as I paid for a 2 bedroom in Chicago's prestigious Millenium Park Plaza (http://www.millenniumparkplaza.com/) and while again, it is a NICE building with DECENT amenities, anybody who looks at the MPP website can compare and contrast and see a startling difference.

And please, spare the ¨you either like it or leave it¨ comments, as thankfully, the importance of my life in BA does not surround itself on the price of my rental unit. I am just commenting on how frustrating the whole peso/dollar rental thing is, especially at this time.

 

[MorganF]

Surprisingly, I found it muuuuch easier and cheaper to BUY an apartment than rent one in BA. Plus, taking into account the rip-off prices for foreigners for apartment rentals, buying an apartment for me paid for itself (ie, "how much would I have spent had I instead rented an equivalent apartment, at these ridiculous foreigner rates?") in just a few years! If you can afford doing so, and will be in the BA in the very long term, then I would definitely recommend doing so.

It is truly bizarre that, how out-of-whack rental vs buying prices are. Plus, in many ways, there is much more work and hassle involved in all the rental work -- issues like what you're complaining about above, very common -- than there is in buying a place. In my experience.

OF COURSE, the key qualification to any recommendation to buy an apartment in BA is: if you are viewing this as a financial investment ("I'm putting in $X and in Y years, I hope it will be worth $Z dollars") then I would strongly recommend you don't buy now. This should be an emotional investment ("I want a home and to never have to deal with the emotional pain of a land lord being shady ever again, a place I can do anything I want with it and that I can never be kicked out of, a home") and a short-term investment as compared to your alternatives ("If I'm going to be here for X years, then I would spend $Y on these rip-off foreigner rental prices; for that same amount of money over these years, I can buy an apartment") -- but in no way should it be a long-term investment. It is unclear if you'll ever get back the cost of my apartment so if you're viewing it as a real investment, now might not be the ideal time.

Note: this advice is worth what you're paying for it... $0

 

[nikad]

YanquiGallego, if it makes you feel any better, RE agencies are in general the same with both foreigners and locals, ie, they all hate them! Start looking for a new place, and point your landlord to the thread that was opened here about Xoom closing accounts out of the blue...Let him know you are not gonna risk your money like this and that if he can find a place where you can get money in the country at such good exchange rate he should point you in that direction and voila! Else he will have to take an intermediate rate just like everybody else. Trust me, be mean, you are in a stronger position. Be mean, works with locals...I know cos I am one! Just in case have a plan B handy and look for another rental, there are thousands out there.

 

[earlyretirement]

I'd say if you feel your rent isn't worth even half of what you're paying, immediately just find another rental if you think you can do better.

Many rental contracts are specifically only specified in US dollars. My in-laws in Buenos Aires make pesos but their rental contract (owned by an American) is in dollars. Although my father in law is in white he can't buy dollars in "white" like so many other locals. It's frustrating as he has to go on the black/blue market and buy them for much more expensive.

But he signed the lease over a year ago (2 year lease) and the contract is specifically in US dollars. So he is honoring his agreement.

It's NOT just a solution for people to say, "go talk to a lawyer". Anyone that has lived in Argentina for any decent amount of time truly knows and understands the legal system does NOT work in Argentina and it's terribly slow and plagued with tons of unethical lawyers that will run up legal bills.

If you think your apartment isn't worth what you're paying, just find another one. As you mentioned, there are a lot of properties out there so find another one. Either that or try to negotiate some mutually agreeable rate with the owner.

I agree the vast majority of the real estate companies in Argentina are HORRIBLE but to be fair, for rentals, it's the owners demanding the rental prices in dollars. And i don't blame them. I certainly wouldn't want to accept pesos as an owner.

 

[domthegreat]

Being from Chicago, I can agree that if you got a place in Millennium Park for the same price...you are crazy for being here!

If they jerk you around just turn them in to AFIP or threaten to do so...that usually shuts them up. In our case our landlord makes us pay in dollars or the blue rate...but since he is deep in the "Blue World" he lets me write him a check from my Schwab account for the rent...he also offered to get blue rate pesos for us if we want. Shady dealings indeed...but to our advantage. However, with the Xoom rate being so ridiculously high these days, its almost better to just go with them over selling for blue rate on the street here.

 

[Sockhopper]

Yanqui,
I thought you were looking for a solution to your specific dilemma. Now I know you wanted, instead, to vent about poor value for money in BA rentals compared to Mexico and Chicago. I understand you!

I knew that Xoom publishes its rates and anyone can see them. My point was that a little legal advice might be worth its cost.

Example: if reliable professional advice says that the landlady can’t order you to use a specific exchange service or another behaving like it (ie. offering the same exchange rate) –in Argentina where there are official and unofficial differing rates and even were Xoom the very last place left to access pesos with $US – then that might save you from arguing the rate with her and leave you free to legally pay her at the official one.

Why let her define the issue in a way that hurts you so as to benefit her IF something fundamental negates the usefulness of her take on things or says that there cannot legally be an issue in the first place about which exchange market’s rate applies? Or tells you that your sticking to the official rate in your rent payments rather than settling for an ‘intermediate’ one is not a ground for eviction?

The new rent law saying that new leases are to be paid in pesos makes more trouble by vaguely adding that both sides are expected to reach an amicable agreement about exchange rate in respect of leases already in progress and expressed in $US. What guides whether an 'amicable agreement' reached conforms with law or not?

And what in it says, if anything, that rents already being stated in pesos as yours does must fluctuate with exchange rates (or different ones) of the $US? Aren't pesos pesos? If not, why is there an official rate for buying them?

There’s so much change and uncertainty to cope with now in Argentina. It must be so frustrating. A course in what’s happening there and what it means really might be the best skills’ programme available for the future anywhere in the world. I’m not up to enrolling in it, though.

 

[TrevorCito]

The problem is the exchange house won't buy your pesos. That's what generates this problem for most expats.

True but as you know, the exchange houses can be bypassed by buying IBM/Intel/Apple CEDEARS in pesos at the worst possible buy rate (6:1), send them overseas and then then sell them as USD... it's not nice but it's better than nothing.