Economists in Buenos Aires

[Philsword]

Well regardless of what this gentleman says in this article the facts of Chile's progress are indisputable. Why this is so hard for some to accept is somewhat of a puzzle to me. My guess is that Argentina will continue to make the same mistakes as in the past. I don't think Argentina is ready for the reforms Chile implemented to fix their problems. However, the day will come when Argentina's lack of progress in comparison to neighboring countries will be obvious to all and it will be impossible to obfuscate and deny the truth.

 

[andrewjps]

To infer that Argentina should have kept going along the same path as they did in the nineties is just absurd.

Further, Chile's 'progress' is much more than 'doing what they (I'm assuming the Chicago Boys) advocated'. This type of policy has been fairly discredited these days, even by former subscribers such as Joseph Stiglitz.

A large topic to go into here, but a great deal of Chile's GDP growth (and this is a highly flawed measurement anyway) is to do with copper, the only thing that was not privatized (luckily).

This whole topic requires a deeper look, but the above comments are a long way off the mark.

 

[Philsword]

Well I believe Chile's success is the result of a lot more than copper. BTW I am not suggesting Argentina return to the 90's. I am suggesting that more market oriented economy and reform of the government is what Argentina needs. I doubt this will happen anytime in the near future and we will have the opportunity see what kind of economy is produced under the kind of government that exists in Argentina today. Country's like Argentina should study what was done in places like Chile, there are other models available as well. Denying the success of Chile doesn't seem like a constructive activity.

 

[Barney]

About 30 years ago, Chile was 80% dependent on copper and now they are 50%. So offcourse they have made some progress.

I keep thinking it's quite a pity there is hardly an industry in Chile(but thriving trade) and it could be better if they came to some kind of deal with Argentina and Brasil

 

[Barney]

Hope they don't...

The mirage of the Chilean miracle
...as told by an Chilean-Argentinian.

Julio A. Constantino - Mayo 22, 2011

Tengo la doble ciudadanía argentina y chilena. He vivido mayormente en Argentina, aunque también algo en Chile, además de unos cuantos años en EE.UU.He sido testigo y víctima como pequeño empresario de los desastres de la política neoliberal en los últimos cuatro años del inefable Menem y subsecuentemente de el gobierno de De La Rúa.

Me consta que las políticas económicas inspiradas en el consenso de Washington son nefastas para los pueblos, y para el análisis de la economía como ciencia en busca del impulso hacia el bienestar general, simplemente estúpidas.

Estuve todo el año 2009 en Chile y charlando con amigos de vasta cultura y mente abierta, me sorprendió escuchar que Chile no tenía deuda externa… Como me costaba tragar ese bocado porque simplemente no encontraba lógico tanto “desarrollo” léase autopistas, etc, etc… usando solo el dinero producido en el país, considerando que la industria es casi inexistente, me senté en mi computador y en el buscador tecleé “deuda externa de Chile”. Sugiero a los lectores hacer lo mismo, y de paso les sugiero analizar las opiniones de Joseph Stiglitz con respecto a Chile en particular y a la mecánica de trabajo del FMI y del Banco Mundial, como para tener una visión acerca de los posibles pasos con respecto a la parte privada de la deuda total de Chile a la banca extranjera.

Como ejemplo pueden estudiar lo hecho por Domingo Cavallo, Chicago boy, como presidente del Banco Central argentino durante el gobierno militar… en cuatro palabras, nacionalizar la deuda privada. Es decir, hacer cargo al erario público de la deuda privada…

Finalmente, decidí quedarme en Argentina, el gobierno actual no es lo más cercano a mi corazón, pero lo defino como el menos malo desde que tengo uso de razón… cosa en la que, creo, ya llevo unas décadas. Las universidades públicas y gratuitas siguen siendo las mejores y puedo entrar a un hospital y me atienden sin pedirme un peso… Si bien el neoliberalismo intentó quedarse también con la salud y la educación pública y privatizarla, no pudo con ello… Gracias a la reacción del pueblo…

En fin… Me da pena el Chile cuna y casa de mi padre. Me dió mucha pena ver a pobres votando por Piñera, aunque para el caso la Concertación no era alternativa. No cuesta darse cuenta de dónde vino el dinero con el que Bachelet se ganó la aprobación que ostentaba… De afuera… Analicen la deuda y verán…

En Argentina, para el 83 voté a Alfonsín, decepcionado, para el 85,
para las siguientes elecciones parlamentarias, no sabía a quién votar… un viejo sabio me dijo “Quien desea el poder, no lo merece”, y voté por el único partido que no había hecho publicidad paga… Mi conclusión es, que nadie que lo busque merece el poder, pero alguien debe gobernarnos, entonces… que sea el menos malo, si no es mucho pedir….

Deuda Externa Chilena - 2010 - xls document

Al 31.12.2010 La Deuda Externa de Chile es US$ 86,040.000.000 (SPrivado 68.638 + SPublico 17.402). Reservas Internacionales US$ 27,863.700 000. Por lo tanto: Si Chile Pagara su deuda hoy seria de US$ 58,177.000 000 Fuentes Oficiales : BCRCH y la 2da de chile. http://www.la2da.cl/modulos/busqued...e=deuda externa&strFechaDesde=&strFechaHasta=

Cheers

Indeed, Argentina is much better offf

 

[Philsword]

About 30 years ago, Chile was 80% dependent on copper and now they are 50%. So offcourse they have made some progress.

I keep thinking it's quite a pity there is hardly an industry in Chile(but thriving trade) and it could be better if they came to some kind of deal with Argentina and Brasil

Good point copper is declining in importance as part of their economy. Better yet take a look at poverty which went from nearly 50% of the population, education system which is ranked high in the region, good healthcare system actually ranked ahead of U.S. Obviously they are doing something right that could be studied and perhaps emulated elsewhere in the region is my point.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Well regardless of what this gentleman says in this article the facts of Chile's progress are indisputable. Why this is so hard for some to accept is somewhat of a puzzle to me.

The gentleman clearly is disputing it -- so it's not beyond dispute. This is a six-year-old article in BusinessWeek; though the magazine is solidly on the side of capital, even it voices a lot of caveats and qualifications to Chile's "success story."

The official figures for those living in poverty can be questioned. For my part, I'm tired of these supposed neoliberal "success" stories that turn out to be tinsel, a mirage, based on illusion, asset bubbles and debt, with increasingly higher Gini coefficients, and with spanking new highways, skyscrapers, and mansions in one or two cities and the otherwise pervasive poverty airbrushed out of the picture.

 

[Philsword]

Well the success story has been going on for 30 years now, things aren't perfect in Chile but the direction is clear, things are getting better in just about every department. If this a flash in the pan its certainly a long lived one.

 

[Barney]

The gentleman clearly is disputing it -- so it's not beyond dispute. This is a six-year-old article in BusinessWeek; though the magazine is solidly on the side of capital, even it voices a lot of caveats and qualifications to Chile's "success story."

The official figures for those living in poverty can be questioned. For my part, I'm tired of these supposed neoliberal "success" stories that turn out to be tinsel, a mirage, based on illusion, asset bubbles and debt, with increasingly higher Gini coefficients, and with spanking new highways, skyscrapers, and mansions in one or two cities and the otherwise pervasive poverty airbrushed out of the picture.

Have you recently checked out the transparency index? (must be coming from the Chicago boys, so can be easily be discreted)

 

[Barney]

I doubt you ever been to Chile but if you do try going to places like Iquique, Antafogasta, Puerto Montt, Punto Arenas and then talk again