Economists in Buenos Aires

[andrewjps]

Well the success story has been going on for 30 years now, things aren't perfect in Chile but the direction is clear, things are getting better in just about every department. If this a flash in the pan its certainly a long lived one.

A 30 year long success story? This once again is a dangerous implication, suggesting that the Pinochet era was a positive one for Chile. Further, I'm not sure that the Piñera era has really been that successful. As Barney points out, it's all a bit smoke and mirrors for my liking.

The whole Chilean miracle/success story is a bit of a beat up in my opinion in an attempt by some analysts to justify their own line. Remember when everyone was talking about the Argentine miracle in the nineties? Front cover of Time I think.

And on a related point, it is interesting to see Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman's comments about Argentina. He is not so keen on seeing Argentina go back to 'Chicago Boys' policies either.

 

[Barney]

A 30 year long success story? This once again is a dangerous implication, suggesting that the Pinochet era was a positive one for Chile. Further, I'm not sure that the Piñera era has really been that successful. As Barney points out, it's all a bit smoke and mirrors for my liking.

The whole Chilean miracle/success story is a bit of a beat up in my opinion in an attempt by some analysts to justify their own line. Remember when everyone was talking about the Argentine miracle in the nineties? Front cover of Time I think.

And on a related point, it is interesting to see Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman's comments about Argentina. He is not so keen on seeing Argentina go back to 'Chicago Boys' policies either.

What did I point out?

 

[andrewjps]

Sorry Barney, I meant bigbadwolf.

Although your point about the the decline on the reliance of copper is a good one. It has stopped them from suffering Dutch Disease like Venezuela is/will suffer from.

 

[Barney]

Sorry Barney, I meant bigbadwolf.

Although your point about the the decline on the reliance of copper is a good one. It has stopped them from suffering Dutch Disease like Venezuela is/will suffer from.

And for a country that is not big enough to have a serious internal market.

I thinking by the way that all those import/export business will not help them in the long run. Would be better to develop there own national industry

 

[Philsword]

A 30 year long success story? This once again is a dangerous implication, suggesting that the Pinochet era was a positive one for Chile. Further, I'm not sure that the Piñera era has really been that successful. As Barney points out, it's all a bit smoke and mirrors for my liking.

The whole Chilean miracle/success story is a bit of a beat up in my opinion in an attempt by some analysts to justify their own line. Remember when everyone was talking about the Argentine miracle in the nineties? Front cover of Time I think.

And on a related point, it is interesting to see Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman's comments about Argentina. He is not so keen on seeing Argentina go back to 'Chicago Boys' policies either.

Yes 30 years and counting. Back in 1980 Chile's per capita GDP (PPP) was about half of Argentina's, today its about the same. Again they are obviously doing something right, you pick the reasons if my explanations don't suit you. I haven't advocated the return of the Chicago Boys to Argentina as you keep suggesting. Perhaps you believe the current government's management of the economy appropriate for Argentina? Perhaps you believe in the government having a heavy hand in the economy like Argentina's today? Perhaps you could share your views? Until I am convinced by some arguments I will continue to believe the stats that show Chile's really remarkable and measured improvement in numerous categories of social and economic development. I'm sorry I can't be persuaded by vague references to it all smoke and mirrors when all the numbers I see say the opposite and for a multi-decade period of time.

 

[polostar88]

A 30 year long success story? This once again is a dangerous implication, suggesting that the Pinochet era was a positive one for Chile. Further, I'm not sure that the Piñera era has really been that successful. As Barney points out, it's all a bit smoke and mirrors for my liking.

The whole Chilean miracle/success story is a bit of a beat up in my opinion in an attempt by some analysts to justify their own line. Remember when everyone was talking about the Argentine miracle in the nineties? Front cover of Time I think.

And on a related point, it is interesting to see Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman's comments about Argentina. He is not so keen on seeing Argentina go back to 'Chicago Boys' policies either.

Paul Krugman may have won a Nobel, but he is a second-rate economist who was not able to predict the 2008 crisis and advocates the same Keynesian policies that led to it in the first place.

Chile has been doing well for a very long time, so it's not comparable to Argentina in the 1990's. You are making a weak attempt to discredit Milton Friedman because of your own socialist bias. Your attempt to attribute Chile's success to copper is ridiculous. There are many nations in the world with considerable natural resources, but that are doing very poorly. Chile's economy is not dependent on copper.

Argentina has never followed a capitalist policy, even in the 1990's.

 

[polostar88]

Deregulate, privatise, allow free flows of money in and out of the country, cut back on social welfare (don't want to spoil the proles).

Argentina never genuinely did any of these things. It went halfway at best in some of the things you mention. Then when things blew up because of govt. involvement and corruption, the govt. and academic class blamed things on "capitalism." True capitalism is foreign to Argentina, and has always been.

It's like the US govt. blaming the 2008 crisis on "deregulation" when the cause was govt. distortion of the market through artificially low interest rates, the 2001-2 stimulus that led to the housing bubble, govt. entities like Freddie and Fannie, etc.

 

[marksoc]

It's like the US govt. blaming the 2008 crisis on "deregulation" when the cause was govt. distortion of the market through artificially low interest rates, the 2001-2 stimulus that led to the housing bubble, govt. entities like Freddie and Fannie, etc.

And Grandpa, the Great Depression was also caused by those pesky interventionists? And the Spanish Construction Bubble? What the Wolf said was correct, privatization provoked unemployment, cuts on social welfare reduced consumption, free flow of money meant that a lot of dangerous "investors" could play the local market and reap financial profits without any intention of making a real investment, and deregulation allowed the local and foreign pirates to do whatever they liked. Also, currency board, one of the tools liked by Chicago Boys all around. The result: December 2001. See ya, and don´t forget to play again!

Do you really think that Freddie and Fannie did that all the banks gave outrageous mortgages to everybody? Mmmm, and what about MBS (mortgage-backed securities)? Did Freddie and Fannie created those as well? (I mean, the deregulated derivatives market of those shit sandwiches). Interesting.

 

[Barney]

There is a really nice article about foreign entrepeneurs who can get free loans up to 40.000 dollar and there residence sorted out in Chile to open up businesses in Chile.

Talk about a vision for the future

Think it was Forbes

 

[Philsword]

And Grandpa, the Great Depression was also caused by those pesky interventionists? And the Spanish Construction Bubble? What the Wolf said was correct, privatization provoked unemployment, cuts on social welfare reduced consumption, free flow of money meant that a lot of dangerous "investors" could play the local market and reap financial profits without any intention of making a real investment, and deregulation allowed the local and foreign pirates to do whatever they liked. Also, currency board, one of the tools liked by Chicago Boys all around. The result: December 2001. See ya, and don´t forget to play again!

Do you really think that Freddie and Fannie did that all the banks gave outrageous mortgages to everybody? Mmmm, and what about MBS (mortgage-backed securities)? Did Freddie and Fannie created those as well? (I mean, the deregulated derivatives market of those shit sandwiches). Interesting.

Well every system has its downside, its just that free markets have fewer than the rest. I been trying to think of a single country in the last 100 years that has been successful in the long term with the kind of policies employed by the government here, really can't think of any. If you could point me in the direction of example of great success from these kind of policies let me know and I will be willing to hear what you have to say.