Exchange Rate Robbery or Reasonable?

[Bajo_cero2]

"Force majeure", contract nullification. Circumstances beyond anyone's control. War, riots, weather and no $$$$$$ because of new government regulation.

In Spanish is Caso fortuito o fuerza mayor. Our Courts have wide precedents about that because we had several crisis for 50 years, last one was corralito.

 

[sergio]

A lot of expats on this forum recommend threatening Argentine owners that they will go to the tax authorities if they (the foreign renters) don't get the terms they want. In most cases rents are stated in dollars. Is it unfair to ask for dollars? It is not the fault of the owner that dollars are hard or expensive to obtain. When expats came to Argentina they came to an unstable country where things like this can happen. Also I wonder how expats would feel if the owners of these apartments threatened to go to the immigration authorities to report their immigration status.

 

[sgarlow]

My landlord says that because our contract is in dollars, we have to pay in dollars (or if we want to pay in pesos we have to pay at the black market rate of 5). Is that correct? All of the banks I went to today said they weren't selling dollars.

 

[mini]

A lot of expats on this forum recommend threatening Argentine owners that they will go to the tax authorities if they (the foreign renters) don't get the terms they want. In most cases rents are stated in dollars. Is it unfair to ask for dollars? It is not the fault of the owner that dollars are hard or expensive to obtain. When expats came to Argentina they came to an unstable country where things like this can happen. Also I wonder how expats would feel if the owners of these apartments threatened to go to the immigration authorities to report their immigration status.

I think it's "unfair" to ask for dollars. At the end of the day the currency here is the peso. It the owner wants dollars, or yen, or whatever it should be up to them to change it not the tenant. That is true for any country really. I can't ask my tenants in Europe to pay me Yen for the rent. If I want Yen I have to buy them. It's only logical.


PS, Excellent work Cristina. Instead of landlords changing their ways and accepting pesos, now the tenants needs to go to the black market or pay exorbitant black market rates to unscrupulous landlords. Good work, girlfriend!

 

[TheBlackHand]

I am glad you feel that way but the market disagrees. The currency of choice for large transactions is still the Dollar, that might change soon, as of right now it hasn't. But it's very simple, find landlords who will accept Pesos at the rate you want or buy your own property but don't try to force a landowner to accept something he or she doesn't want for their property, especially by using threats, blackmail and coercion. That is what's unfair.

I think it's "unfair" to ask for dollars. At the end of the day the currency here is the peso.

 

[mini]

I am glad you feel that way but the market disagrees. The currency of choice for large transactions is still the Dollar, that might change soon, as of right now it hasn't. But it's very simple, find landlords who will accept Pesos at the rate you want or buy your own property but don't try to force a landowner to accept something he or she doesn't want for their property, especially by using threats, blackmail and coercion. That is what's unfair.

And I'm glad that you're glad that that's how I feel.

No need to tell me how the market works though. I've been here long enough to know. Does not mean I have to agree with it.

Thanks for the tips, but this is not an issue for us as we have a regular unfurnished contract in pesos with guarantia. Our landlord does everything above board, as do we, which makes me even less inclined to have sympathy for those landlords who are fleecing the tourists.

Also, I do not believe informing the landlord of the AFIP obligations is unfair. Charging black market rates because you are dodging the rules is unfair as is making the tenant, who is, um, the customer and usually foreigner, deal with the black market.

I have to register to change my money & they should too. Simples. However we all know that's not the way things work in Argentina. The ones who don't dodge the system and screw everyone else are the ones who lose out.

 

[starlucia]

A lot of expats on this forum recommend threatening Argentine owners that they will go to the tax authorities if they (the foreign renters) don't get the terms they want. In most cases rents are stated in dollars. Is it unfair to ask for dollars? It is not the fault of the owner that dollars are hard or expensive to obtain. When expats came to Argentina they came to an unstable country where things like this can happen. Also I wonder how expats would feel if the owners of these apartments threatened to go to the immigration authorities to report their immigration status.

Landlords can continue insisting upon dollars if they want. I think they're just going to risk being faced with a vacant apartment pretty soon, since the difficulties of obtaining dollars have become completely unworth it for either locals or foreigners (and there are an awful lot of other apartments to choose from, with landlords who will accept pesos at a fair rate.)

 

[perry]

There are many issues here and one that has clearly two sides . Looking it at the property owners side it is obvious to them if the contracts is in dollars and was accepted as this the onus of responsibility must be the tenant to pay dollars . This can also work in their favour in the other way if the dollar one day collapses and is worth for example just 1 peso . This happened in 2001 when many contracts were in the dollarised peso that was then unpegged and reached 3 to 1 overnight. Thinking about this if the dollar collapsed in value would the same renters then complain?

For those who work here I do understand that the new rules have caused grief as well as extra cost for those wanting dollars . For these people a compromise is the fair solution .

 

[Davidglen77]

The best solution to all of this is.......rental contracts ONLY in pesos. Nobody in the world (except Argentina maybe) is going to accept something like a rental contract on a floating price basis. It's a losing proposition on both ends. It worked here for a good long while due to the easy availability of foreign currency, however now pesos rule and that is what landlords will have to accept. Take it or leave it or start complaining to the government.

 

[Empshel]

I've had my fill of lawyers for two lifetimes. No offense but all they care about is the 15-20% that they charge their clients. If it was up to them, everybody would spend half their lives in court or mediation for the smallest things. Trust me, whatever someone thinks they're going to save by going to court they will lose paying lawyer and mediator fees.

The USA was pretty sue happy for a while. Now it's the worst profession to have in the country, with 70% or so of new graduates working at Mc Donalds because they can't get a job. People get tired of endless litigation pretty quickly.

I just saw this and as a retired lawyer, I thought I'd respond point-by-point. (For the record, this is basically a tounge-in-cheek response.)

I've had my fill of lawyers for two lifetimes.

Trust me, brother. Unless you practiced law yourself, I've had more experience with them than you have and there's no way you can hate dealing with them as much as I do.

No offense but all they care about is the 15-20% that they charge their clients.

15-20%? That sounds kinda low to me.

If it was up to them, everybody would spend half their lives in court or mediation for the smallest things.

Nope. Lawyers just want to get paid. If they can do that without ever stepping foot in court or mediation, all the better.

Trust me, whatever someone thinks they're going to save by going to court they will lose paying lawyer and mediator fees.

True 'dat. Especially with respect to relatively low money suits that people would have to bring for rental claims like those discussed here.

The USA was pretty sue happy for a while. Now it's the worst profession to have in the country, with 70% or so of new graduates working at Mc Donalds because they can't get a job. People get tired of endless litigation pretty quickly.

This seems like one point, so I'll address it all together. The USA WAS pretty sue happy? It's still pretty sue happy. I did a quick-and-dirty google search for the number of lawsuits filed in the US and couldn't find anything particularly helpful, but even if the number of lawsuits has gone down in recent years (and I would be a little surprised because, historically, bad economies yield increased litigation), the number wouldn't justify the high unemployment rate of newly graduated law students. A bigger factor is that there are just so many damn lawyers. And it'll likely get worse soon because another thing that typically happens in bad economies is more college graduates go to graduate schools, including law schools, in hopes that the economy will be better when they graduate from grad school and they'll be able to find a better job. The extended period of unemployment just means that those graduates who couldn't find a job after college still won't be able to find one after law school, only they're now $100K (or more) deeper in debt. Anyway, people do tire of litigation quickly, but there's somebody else out there who wants to chase the deep pockets for easy money.