Exchange Rate Robbery or Reasonable?

[sergio]

Mini, Few things are "fair" in Argentina. Foreigners who choose to live in Argentina need to accept local conditions which are quite different from those of Europe or North America. The dollar has been the preferred means of exchange for many things in Argentina, especially anything related to property, for a very long time. It is really the dollar, not the peso (or the austral or the funny money they were issuing during the crisis - patacones, Lecop etc) that has long been the real currency of Argentina.

While the dollar may be the defacto currency of Argentina, it is the official currency of many nations:

Countries using the U.S. dollar exclusively
British Virgin Islands
Caribbean Netherlands (from 1 January 2011)
East Timor (uses its own coins)
Ecuador (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins)
El Salvador
Marshall Islands
Federated States of Micronesia
Palau
Panama (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins)
Turks and Caicos Islands

Countries using the U.S. dollar alongside other currencies
Cambodia (uses Cambodian Riel for many official transactions but most businesses deal exclusively in dollars)
Lebanon (along with the Lebanese pound)
Liberia (was fully dollarized until 1982; U.S. dollar still in common usage alongside Liberian dollar)
Zimbabwe
Haiti uses the U.S Dollar alongside its domestic currency called "Gourde"

 

[Bajo_cero2]

As I said before, the solution is to look for a price in between for the dollar. If he wants 5 pesos, then it is better for look for another place if he gives the deposit back in advance.

But as I mentioned, a solution where both loose a little is rasonable and then, is a win win solution.

To call afip doesn t work because this is a civil contract.

But, as I mentioned in another thread, the whole restriction is standard in almost any country and looks for stop the money that is evading taxes. Try to buy Ferrari cash at Miami, impossible nowadays, normal in the 80 s.

So, as I suggested, for those who are living here perhaps is better to stop playing to be a "perma-tourist", admit that you are an immigrant and that it might be better to look for regularize your self and pay some taxes. Then you can rent a normal 2 years contract with a contract in pesos and, if you need dollars, you can just buy them.
Regards

 

[mini]

Mini, Few things are "fair" in Argentina. Foreigners who choose to live in Argentina need to accept local conditions which are quite different from those of Europe or North America.

You don't have to tell me how it is here. I know very well how it is here. I still believe if the landlord wants dollars it's up to them to get dollars. Just because some people want to fleece tourists that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

But please don't patronize me that I need to "accept local conditions". Like I said, I pay my rent in both my studio & my apartment in pesos. The contracts are in pesos and that's what we earn & spend.

My landlord for my studio immediately takes the money I give her & changes it to dollars. That is her right & her responsibility. Not mine.

Anyway, the whole point of this is that now there are laws that make it very difficult, if not impossible for tourists to get dollars. If the landlord can't get dollars s/he is the one that needs to all the tramites to be able to do so. It's not right to ask tourists to do illegal, sketchy and possibly dangerous things like making black market deals.

And PS, we are not talking about other countries. We are talking about Argentina. If I lived in Ecuador or Liberia I'd be happy to discuss the use of the dollar there. But I don't.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Anyway, the whole point of this is that now there are laws that make it very difficult, if not impossible for tourists to get dollars.

Mini, let s clarify this, you mean immigrants.

 

[Lucas]

Mini, this has been a situation of urgency to come up with this, the exodus of foreign exchange from the country was exacerbated, promoted and encouraged by anti-national interest by the concentrated media playing for their own interest and also for the foreign financial interest in order to provoke a running on the dollar with the goal to suffocate and put down this government something similar to a Coup d'état without the military of course, they have been trying very hard to do this for a quite long time now without any overwhelming result yet.
Now the focus will be to regulate the market in what is becoming a distorted situation as you mentioned and which is real and disturbing to say at least. If I remember right, Perry mentioned that in May of next year the contracts must be redacted in pesos only, they have had received a 'circular' on this to get ready for the switch, hope that will solution many of the problems these new rules have produced to the tourist in particular, as for the perm-tourist maybe is time as Bajo_cero2 have said is to regularize their status in the country.

 

[mini]

Mini, let s clarify this, you mean immigrants.

No. I'm an immigrant & I pay everything in pesos. I'm talking about tourists.

Perma-tourists should know by now that there are plenty of free apartments and they should be looking for a reasonable landlord.

Lucas, if the Argentine people aren't going to change (ie, they continue to force people to pay in US$), putting legal blocks only effects the regular people who do everything in white. The black market keeps ticking away without any hiccups.

But to be honest, I don't think the media is the only one to blame. By throwing out this law to control the currency "just like that" without any discussion or pre-warning only makes people panic, with or without the media. People don't like these kind of quick actions. They feel "sneaky", to be honest. And at the end of the day the system isn't working properly which makes people panic more.

See the fact that they are announcing now something that will happen in May, is the way to do things. Not from on day to the next. I don't agree with everything that goes on in this country. But I think that contract should be in the local currency. Then if the person receiving the money wants to change it, that's up to them.

 

[TheBlackHand]

Mini, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Asking to be paid rent in Dollars is not fleecing anyone. When I was in Europe, I paid for my lodging in guess what ??? Dollars. Some days the Euro was strong against the Dollar and some days it dipped. But I always paid the same amount in Dollars and neither myself nor the landlord at any point felt fleeced. We had both willingly and knowingly entered into an agreement and were simply honoring it. If you think American immigrants are these defenseless twerps that can't read contracts and don't understand what they are signing, that's up to you. I don't. I will never sign something unless I agree and plan to honor it. It's that simple. There are thousands of apartments and rentors in Buenos Aires. If you don't like the terms that the rentor is offering, don't accept them and look for lodging elsewhere. Don't sign an contract and then spend the next few months complaining about it. That's just stupid.

 

[sergio]

If the contract is in DOLLARS then payment must be in DOLLARS unless the owner and renter come to an agreement. It is not the fault of the owner that political conditions have changed. Political instability is what caused the dollar to be the de facto currency in the first place. Asking for DOLLARS when the contract calls for DOLLARS is not unfair.

Argentina has a LONG history of making abrupt changes that cause chaos to people's lives. Mini, were you here when the corralito took place? I waited HOURS at Citibank to get a small amount of money out of my savings account. Certificates of deposited were changed from DOLLARS to PESOS at a hugely devalued rate and they were frozen so you couldn't withdraw your devalued savings! The devaluation was done without ANY planning. It just happened and caught millions of people by surprise. That is how the country is. Live with it. You have no choice.

I mentioned OTHER countries that use diollars because you brought up the point about how the peso is the national currency and you mentioned OTHER countries in your argument. The peso is the official currency but the DOLLAR was the de facto currency for DECADES. I have my doubts that Cristina will be able to sustain this draconian economic policy. It is a sign of real desperation.

 

[perry]

Mini if the dollar was the one that was devalued and was say 1.50 to the peso would you then complain? For those earnings are in pesos it would mean a huge saving .

I do agree that a contract signed is a contract signed and that it should be respected as such. Most expats have dollar earnings meaning that the current change should be favourable to them . For those who earn pesos locally I do believe that a compromise should be made between the two parties.

All this talk about reporting people to Afip sounds like a communist state where you dob in your neighbours for the smallest infraction.

I personally do not like the new laws and find them a terrible hindrance in my everyday life but I do not project this to other people who I have made agreements with as I respect what I sign and honour my written word!!

 

[Bajo_cero2]

No. I'm an immigrant & I pay everything in pesos. I'm talking about tourists. .

You are confused. Even I look at the immigration law, there are not such a thing. Perma-tourist is an euphemism for irregular immigration. Once you understand that, everything is clearer.

Turist, the real turist can re-buy dollars. They only show the ticket of the dollars they sold to afip and they are approved.

Irregular immigrants cannot buy dollars. Lucky them, in the US they jail immigrants who don t have green card.

Immigrants should know by now that there are plenty of free apartments and they should be looking for a reasonable landlord.

I agree. However, it is a good time for stop playing to be permatourist and get regular. Then renting at argentine prices is easier. I pay 1400 pesos expensas incluidas for a 2 ambientes 1 block from Plaza Italia. But you need a DNI for that.

Lucas, if the Argentine people aren't going to change (ie, they continue to force people to pay in US$), putting legal blocks only effects the regular people who do everything in white. The black market keeps ticking away without any hiccups.

In this country, even the bishops buy dollars in black market, so the moral speech makes no sense because this is a survival technique.

But to be honest, I don't think the media is the only one to blame. By throwing out this law to control the currency "just like that" without any discussion or pre-warning only makes people panic, with or without the media. People don't like these kind of quick actions. They feel "sneaky", to be honest. And at the end of the day the system isn't working properly which makes people panic more.

No one is in panic, please talk by yourself. As far as I understood, the dollar price falled down a little bit. Why should they do? discuss this for 7 months and then, when there are no more dollars at central bank and we have another 20.12.2001? Come on!

See the fact that they are announcing now something that will happen in May, is the way to do things. Not from on day to the next. I don't agree with everything that goes on in this country. But I think that contract should be in the local currency. Then if the person receiving the money wants to change it, that's up to them.

The whole idea about contracts in dollars is because is forbidden by law to increase the rent or to use value clauses for indexing the rent. In fact to pay in dolars is a value clause undercover. So, it is illegal and its considered not written.

LEY 23.928. Art. 10.– (Texto según ley 25561, art. 4 Ver Texto ) Mantiénense derogadas, con efecto a partir del 1 de abril de 1991, todas las normas legales o reglamentarias que establecen o autorizan la indexación por precios, actualización monetaria, variación de costos o cualquier otra forma de repotenciación de las deudas, impuestos, precios o tarifas de los bienes, obras o servicios. Esta derogación se aplicará aun a los efectos de las relaciones y situaciones jurídicas existentes, no pudiendo aplicarse ni esgrimirse ninguna cláusula legal, reglamentaria, contractual o convencional -inclusive convenios colectivos de trabajo- de fecha anterior, como causa de ajuste en las sumas de pesos que corresponda pagar.

Nobody ever expected that CFK would do this. The idea about to make contracts in dollars is a indirect way of using a value clause. That s why it might be solved at Court.

Let s clarify this: THE CONTRACTS IN DOLLARS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE LAW BUT YOU HAVE TO ENFORCE IT AT COURT:

ARTÍCULO 1.
Los contratos de locaciones urbanas, así como también sus modificaciones y prórrogas, deberán formalizarse por escrito.
Cuando el contrato no celebrado por escrito haya tenido principio de ejecución, se considerará como plazo el mínimo fijado en esta ley y el precio y su actualización los determinará el juez de acuerdo al valor y práctica de plaza.
En todos los supuestos, los alquileres se establecerán en moneda de curso legal al momento de concertarse. Será nula, sin perjuicio de la validez del contrato, la cláusula por la cual se convenga el pago en moneda que no tenga curso legal. En este caso, el precio quedará sujeto a determinación judicial.

I googled it and there is a lot of false info online.

Regards