Expats not happy, why stay?

[syngirl]

I do not perceive Buenos Aires to be a third world city just because it is not as developed as Sydney, Tokyo or Vancouver. The first world gleam of clean streets and unlimited consumerism does not translate into a more happy people .

I'm from Vancouver, I live here in BA. In Vancouver it's so clean I could eat off the sidewalk. But people are famously unfriendly, it's nickname is No Fun City, it is all about NIMBYism (not in my back yard). There was an article in the Straight a few years ago about a guy who moved from NYC to Vancouver and he couldn't get over the fact that NYers, even pre-9/11 NYers were easier to get to know and more friendly and outgoing than any Vancouverites. Maybe it's having grown up in Vancouver that I'm not put off by the stand-offish nature of the Porteños??


I think a lot of expats that come to Argentina come for the wrong reasons. So many expats come down with expectations of being able to live a fantasy life. Their expectations are often based on a two week visit or an article written circa 2006. Despite having moved to a foreign country and culture, a lot of expats come to Buenos Aires wanting what they want, and they want it to be like home, but for a third of the price. But BA and Argentina are not like your home country. They have their own culture and rituals and expats either adapt and love it, or they end up going home. The turn over rate is very high for expats I would say, and the 2 year mark seems to be where they drop like flies.

However the original question of this post it seems was:

Why do you live in Argentina if you are not happy about your life here?

Has that been answered yet? Or have we just heard more moaning? I guess maybe the answer is

"I'm a twisted sado-masochist and I just love the punishment of living here"

or more likely

"Even though I'd [only/never] visited BA for [2 weeks/no time at all] I threw all my eggs in one basket, sold my house and gave up my job, sunk everything I had into an apartment before figuring out if I liked BA or the barrio where I bought, and now the global economy has exploded and I'm stuck here whether I like it or not so instead of sucking it up and finding the good in BA I'm just going to be miserable until I can sell my apartment after the market improves in a couple of years"

 

[chuni27]

HotYogaTeacher: I felt bad and let me tell you why I felt like that.
You say you dont feel comfortable in Buenos Aires, you dont like the food, city isnt clean...
that's your opinion and it's ok. I have lots of expats friends and they think Buenos Aires is nice. if they dont think it's nice...that's fine. Opinions are good but the way you talk.. it sounds like if you're attacking buenos aires, and that's why I felt bad. Because I love buenos aires, because Im a native and you're insulting my culture.
I dont think it's all about your opinion. Your friend invited you to San Bernardo.. (it was SB right?) well... you didnt like SB. it's ok. I understand your friend's point of view. Every summer, I go to a small seaside town 600km away from Buenos Aires. This place is nice to me.. I know it has nothing fun, there's no bank, there's no cellphone signal (if you decide to go to the beach only). I know...this place isnt the best one..but I love it. I invited some friends and they said.. well.. I like Mar del Plata, and it was ok.
What I mean is... if you didnt like SB, that's okay..but... your friend invited you to go there so he could share with you what it was nice to him....and you end up saying things like "the place was boring, ugly, etc" that's not good. It's about "the action", not about the place itself.
I dont know who you are, Im not trying to judge you. What you just said... it makes me think you're not modest. I just think you have the right to express yourself..but if I were you, I would be careful , because you might hurt someone else's feelings. Like someone said before, you can leave whenever you want. and yes, it's difficult to leave whenever you want, that requires money, time..I agree.
Again...I dont want to offend you, you have the right to think you dont like Buenos Aires but you can come back to your place if our culture is bothering you.

 

[Stanexpat]

HotYogaTeacher: I felt bad and let me tell you why I felt like that.
You say you dont feel comfortable in Buenos Aires, you dont like the food, city isnt clean...
that's your opinion and it's ok. I have lots of expats friends and they think Buenos Aires is nice. if they dont think it's nice...that's fine. Opinions are good but the way you talk.. it sounds like if you're attacking buenos aires, and that's why I felt bad. Because I love buenos aires, because Im a native and you're insulting my culture.
I dont think it's all about your opinion. Your friend invited you to San Bernardo.. (it was SB right?) well... you didnt like SB. it's ok. I understand your friend's point of view. Every summer, I go to a small seaside town 600km away from Buenos Aires. This place is nice to me.. I know it has nothing fun, there's no bank, there's no cellphone signal (if you decide to go to the beach only). I know...this place isnt the best one..but I love it. I invited some friends and they said.. well.. I like Mar del Plata, and it was ok.
What I mean is... if you didnt like SB, that's okay..but... your friend invited you to go there so he could share with you what it was nice to him....and you end up saying things like "the place was boring, ugly, etc" that's not good. It's about "the action", not about the place itself.
I dont know who you are, Im not trying to judge you. What you just said... it makes me think you're not modest. I just think you have the right to express yourself..but if I were you, I would be careful , because you might hurt someone else's feelings. Like someone said before, you can leave whenever you want. and yes, it's difficult to leave whenever you want, that requires money, time..I agree.
Again...I dont want to offend you, you have the right to think you dont like Buenos Aires but you can come back to your place if our culture is bothering you.

If you read back the lady is planning on leaving, I think she is just explaining some of the reasons why. She has just contributing to the question raised in the thread.

 

[nikad]

HYT: I have lived here all my life and have also traveled quite a bit. We all know that you have to struggle more to get things done here ( I suppose it gets more frustrating when you compare these processes to your home country ). The dog poop, noise, etc, we all know about it too. I wonder who comes to Buenos Aires thinking that everything works perfectly, there is no dirt, people are vegetarian, there are no scammers, etc. Come on! These are basics: any South American city is polluted, noisy, and basically has the same issues.

This city has been always promoted as cosmopolite, culturally rich, very social, bohemian, with lots of beef, etc. If you wanted a more " natural" environment, why did you choose a city? Especially a large one? If you wanted things to work smoothly why not go to Canada instead?

People in general are not into buying more and more and accruing more and more material goods, but really into interacting a lot with friends and families. That is probably why you can´t " spit" and find the same US restaurants where you can have a great meal ( any ethnic cuisine ), eat and leave! People like to chat, talk, a meal is a social event. In short, everything is a social event, even shopping for groceries, or going out to work and chatting with your building´s super. People are not into buying brands, or exotic goods: they just like to get something new and trendy at the most.

It is very hard for me to understand your particular frustrations, being that you are into a spiritual discipline: you seem to be too worried about everything material! And you also base most of your judgments on material things, goods, stuff you can buy, food you can eat, variety, as if life was just a big mall...Maybe yoga is different is the US?

A lot of people here that are middle low class, and even poor, go out to bars and places, yes, they get an expresso and chat with their friends for a couple of hours, they go to free concerts and theatre plays, museums, and endless activities.

I never stay where I am unhappy, on the other hand I really feel sorry for your friend. You really talked about his happiness in such a derogative way that it is really upsetting. On the other hand, I have heard that tickets got cheaper in the last month or so...

 

[HDM]

Stanexpat, the responses Yoga has gotten are not about her offering reasons why she wants to leave Buenos Aires, it is the cocky, "my world is better than your world" attitude, the unnecessarily bitter and angry tone she employed in giving her "reasons." Like a jilted lover, she writes as if she needs to hurt Buenos Aires on her way out. It is not flattering and it does not advance her case; it simply makes her look like just another culture-shocked, bitter, failed expat. It is easy to list one's reasons for being dissatisfied with a place one has mistakenly moved to, without using your dislikes as nothing more than a platform for loving gushing about the place you left behind; to need to kick your mistake in the balls just to make yourself feel better for having failed at making a go of a very complex move. That is what stimulated the responses she is getting, not because she stirred up a gang of rosy-eyed Chamber of Commerce types.

 

[reiver]

I'm from Vancouver too, but....

I'm from Vancouver, I live here in BA. In Vancouver it's so clean I could eat off the sidewalk.

I don't know about that. It's clean, but I have to look out for dog shit in certain places. For example, when walking from my office in Yaletown, I have to keep an eye out for where I step. (Just walk up and down Nelson, in the Yaletown area, and you'll notice it... or if you don't notice it, you'll probably end up stepping in it )

But people are famously unfriendly, it's nickname is No Fun City, it is all about NIMBYism (not in my back yard). There was an article in the Straight a few years ago about a guy who moved from NYC to Vancouver and he couldn't get over the fact that NYers, even pre-9/11 NYers were easier to get to know and more friendly and outgoing than any Vancouverites. Maybe it's having grown up in Vancouver that I'm not put off by the stand-offish nature of the Porteños??

I always had a different impression of the Vancouver area -- Vancouver and the suburbs around it. I had one guy from London tell me that he loved in Burnaby (which is a suburb of Vancouver). That in London people are so rude and unfriendly. But in the Vancouver area, people are warm, friendly, and neighborly.

I guess it might be somewhat relative to what you are comparing it to.

 

[criswkh]

Maybe some expats can't leave because of contracts with their companies. No matter how many times you come to visit, either short stay a week or 3 months, a person won't know what is like to live until they have been at a place for a year or longer. Living in a foreign country is especially difficult if you have never lived outside your own country/town.
If you are going to keep comparing here to your own country, you start to lose track of the good things here.
Just recently, I went back to the states for a week.
If I compare the dog poo here to Chicago...the winner would be Chicago. There was a lot more poo on the sidewalks in Chicago. Of course, the weather is -9C. So there is nothing like frozen dog poo. You can't blame Argentina on dog poo, until there is enforcement of some dog poo law, people will people. I have seen some people pick up other people will not..same goes in any place.
The cost of living here is still cheaper than the rents, utilities, and food in Chicago. Yes, I miss certain foods, but I learn to bring back spices. You adapt to things.
The US is in deflation so a lot of "expensive" items are going on sell. I have seen our dog food double over the last six months. In fact, it is cheaper just to feed the dogs meat than dog food.
But if I compare Argentina to my Nana's area...small town in Oklahoma the cost to live there versus Argentina is about the same. Yes, there are culture events in Oklahoma, but not like here or Chicago/Buenos Aires. Comparison can be different/same depending on what you are looking for.
I find that when I am in the States I miss a lot of things I love about Argentina. When I'm in Argentina I miss a lot of things I love in the States. There has to be some balance on your focus until then just enjoy your time here as a learning experience. Remember you moved out of a comfort zone and not many people who consider doing that leap.

 

[RWS]

I'm sorry if my comments are taken as attacking Argentina. . . . I might not always be correct but [my] purpose in doing so is not intended to be malicious. I am a frequent critic of the government there which I believe is the main problem in Argentina becoming a successful and wealthy nation.

Stan, I'm glad that you posted this. It's helped me to see your attitude toward land and people more accurately (heightened, perhaps, by my concurring in your final observation).

 

[RWS]

"Hot", I'm not offended by your critique of Bs.As. Indeed, I couldn't dispute the factual basis of some of your observations even if I wanted to; and I don't.

I simply remain surprised that none of this was apparent to you before your move. Not in antagonism, but, rather, out of curiosity, I ask if you would be so kind as to tell us both what you'd anticipated Bs.As. would be and why you did so anticipate.

 

[amat]

I agree with crishkh above - sounds like hotyoga has a severe case of culture shock! When moving to a new country, it seems many people focus on learning the language, and bugeting/money issues and fail to think about the other day-to-day things that will be different: culture, attitudes, available food, availability of home comforts, etc. And these differences get to be far more upsetting than people expect.

i've just moved here after 3 years in Thailand, with 1 year in India before that. (BTW -you want to see complainers on a forum? read the one for Thailand!)
I've got reverse culture shock - i'm so happy to see that in the supermarket, we can now find (and afford) wine and cheese! and volumizing shampoo! and a variety of bread! I love that cultural differences between me and a local seem far less different. Evrytime i've gotten in a taxi, the meter was turned on right away with no pre-haggling with the driver who wants a set price. (though i'm aware that could change!)

I really loved Thailand but I felt it was time to go and I think (hope!) I'll really like Argentina.

My advice to newcomers reading a forum about any country - ignore the complainers. Of course no-one likes dog crap on the sidewalks. If people have complaints, they always love to share them. But how many people take the time to share the things they have no complaints about?... i've yet to see a post that says something like:"I gotsome delicious cheese today from a very smiley man who was very polite and charged me a reasonable price. "

So, use the forums to get practical info that you need and will benefit from,and take the complaints with a grain of salt. Once I had all the "logistics" figured out for our move to BA, I cut myself off from this forum until I got here because all the negativity was freaking me out. Instead, I talked to people in bangkok who had been here and loved it and said they would love to come back. And now that i'm here, it seems they were right!