Fascists in Palermo

[orwellian]

I was very drunk last night when I wrote that last post. Mussolini was a fascist, but he also used to be a socialist. So his early stuff differs a lot from when he was a dictator. Also, Peronism and social democracy has certain fascist aspects, so does the United States. But that doesn't mean it is fascist. It's not black and white.

And what do you mean by "the Kirchners literally buy the votes of the poor"? How are they doing that in your opinion?

 

[ElQueso]

El Queso, Argentina didn't declare war until de war was almost over because there were economical benefits... Argentina was selling crops to Europe (Italy and Germany but also England). Argentina was taking advantage of the situation, there weren't any political reasons, really.

Abril, there were some economic benefits, of course. However, the Allies were pressuring Argentina very strongly to quit supporting the Germans and the Italians. Yes, Argentina was taking advantage of the situation, to sell to both sides, but that is not the only reason they were supporting the Nazis and the Italian fascists. And sorry, I keep leaving the Franco Spanish fascists out of the mix.

I don't see that it matters that Argentina was only "taking advantage of the situation." That certainly doesn't exclude Peron from being very cozy with the ditactors/fascists that were running the Axis powers in Europe before and during World War II. In point of fact, there is overwhelming evidence of these very tight connections, and they go beyond simple economics (which is bad enough). They go to sympathetic political thinking as well.

 

[jp]

And what do you mean by "the Kirchners literally buy the votes of the poor"? How are they doing that in your opinion?

Buy offering people a pancho and a beer, and loading them onto buses to go and protest/vote/support them.

Do you not read the news here?

 

[orwellian]

Do you not read the news here?

No why would I do that? Aren't all daily newspapers here owned by the same company? And do the K's really do that or is that just more of the blatant lies?

 

[gouchobob]

Buy offering people a pancho and a beer, and loading them onto buses to go and protest/vote/support them.

Do you not read the news here?

Good point. There is quite a bit of speculation that the fight over the reserves has nothing to do with repaying debt, that the money to pay the debt is already in the budget. The real purpose is for the Kirchners to get the money to fund their re-election. They will ramp up spending giving out no-show jobs and the like, basically buying votes.

 

[malbec]

Good point. There is quite a bit of speculation that the fight over the reserves has nothing to do with repaying debt, that the money to pay the debt is already in the budget. The real purpose is for the Kirchners to get the money to fund their re-election. They will ramp up spending giving out no-show jobs and the like, basically buying votes.

This is for sure, the KKs are trying to put their hands on the money, as they are running out of cash. It is also traditional that the Peronists "burn" the country before they leave office, to ensure any sucessor won't be able to be too powerful or achieve anything.

 

[jp]

No why would I do that? Aren't all daily newspapers here owned by the same company? And do the K's really do that or is that just more of the blatant lies?

Why do you care? Just make up what you want to be happening, and convince yourself you're right. Don't let contradictory sources trouble you. Your imagination is as good as any educated commentator.

 

[orwellian]

Why do you care? Just make up what you want to be happening, and convince yourself you're right. Don't let contradictory sources trouble you. Your imagination is as good as any educated commentator.

I am not saying I know whether it's true or not. I would need to read the articles to know. And I obviously care because I want to know the truth. But so far you have provided me with nothing but baseless accusations. If there was any good newspapers here in Argentina I would read them. I have read Clarin and La Nacion a few times but I mostly felt disgusted. Now can you please answer my questions?

 

[StevePalermo]

Orwellian,

Originally Posted by orwellian
Aren't all daily newspapers here owned by the same company?

I've no proof, and maybe I'm being naîve, but I'm pretty sure that Clarin, La Nacion and Pagina12 are all owned by different people. Not like the UK for example, where Murdoch owns half the national press. Any potential Prime Minister has to suck up to him to get his endorsement in an election. Blair being the most blatant example.

 

[jp]

Orwellian:
http://www.argentinepost.com/2007/10/buying-votes-in-argentinas-election.html
Only english link I could find. Make of it what you will.

And no, the papers aren't all owned by the same group.