Food prices are amongst the highest of the planet

[perry]

Do you understand the concept of seasonality? If so, would you not consider it relevant to tourism?

E.g. February always has less tourism than January, and March less than February in Argentina.

Here is a nice graph to help illustrate this complex concept.

That is why year on year is used instead of month on month:
"January arrivals were 23 percent higher than the same period last year while February arrivals grew 10 percent year-on-year."

Im sorry but tourism is plummeted especilly from our neighbouring countries over 50% . Chile is now having a tourism boom due to its stable economy and reaonable prices .

Tras el derrumbe del turismo de compras a Argentina, los uruguayos ya tienen a Chile como nuevo “destino estrella”

En 2023, ocho de cada díez uruguayos que viajaron al extranjero lo hicieron a Argentina alentado por el cambio favorable. Eso se acabó con la llegada de Javier Milei a la presidencia.

www.infobae.com

This is such a shame as Argentina was a superstar in that area untl very recently .

 

[AdrianB]

in March for example foreign receptive tourism is up 26.7%

Take into account that probably most tourists who arrived in March planned this trip around December or before as people generally plan bigger trips in advance.

 

[argeiCanuck]

Never occurred to me that some expats are invested (building a new life) in Argentina.

Thought we are all grumpy old retirees (hence Argentine haters). Retroactively I would have used a different tone.

 

[antipodean]

Im sorry but tourism is plummeted especilly from our neighbouring countries over 50% . Chile is now having a tourism boom due to its stable economy and reaonable prices .

Tras el derrumbe del turismo de compras a Argentina, los uruguayos ya tienen a Chile como nuevo “destino estrella”

En 2023, ocho de cada díez uruguayos que viajaron al extranjero lo hicieron a Argentina alentado por el cambio favorable. Eso se acabó con la llegada de Javier Milei a la presidencia.

www.infobae.com

This is such a shame as Argentina was a superstar in that area untl very recently .

"After the collapse of shopping tourism to Argentina, Uruguayans already have Chile as their new “star destination”

So total international tourist arrivals each month this year are higher than the same months last year and you are trying to say that tourism (like, all tourism) has plummeted because Uruguayans are not coming here to shop?
O sea, in March 2019 (pre-pandemic) there were 640.880 foreign tourist arrivals to Argentina and in March 2024 (post-Milei) there were 673.210 arrivals yet, according to the definition of two internet posters on this forum, tourism has plummeted?

I see that you clearly prefer bargain-basement tourism that spends little on accommodation and travel while in Argentina, just fills up at the supermarket and drives home... or perhaps some posters are so eager to see misery that they have resorted to grabbing at straws and ignoring hard facts.

Still waiting on your definition of success, Perry.

 

[perry]

"After the collapse of shopping tourism to Argentina, Uruguayans already have Chile as their new “star destination”

So total international tourist arrivals each month this year are higher than the same months last year and you are trying to say that tourism (like, all tourism) has plummeted because Uruguayans are not coming here to shop?
O sea, in March 2019 (pre-pandemic) there were 640.880 foreign tourist arrivals to Argentina and in March 2024 (post-Milei) there were 673.210 arrivals yet, according to the definition of two internet posters on this forum, tourism has plummeted?

I see that you clearly prefer bargain-basement tourism that spends little on accommodation and travel while in Argentina, just fills up at the supermarket and drives home... or perhaps some posters are so eager to see misery that they have resorted to grabbing at straws and ignoring hard facts.

Still waiting on your definition of success, Perry.

I see the facts on the ground and speak to business owners reguarly and they all tell me that they cannot rent their apartments through airbnb and that their businesses are suffering . Why are you trying so hard to show that things are so successful in Argentina when clearly they are not Antipodean ? Trying so hard to embarrar la cancha shows manipulation of a high degree on your part.

By the way tourism is never bargain based as you state but middle class tourism and luxury tourism where in Argentina makes up at most 5% of the tourism market . The middle class market has a beautiful continent to travel too and currently Brazil Chile Peru offer great experiences and a cheaper price . Most middle class people look at prices of course and when you price yourself out of a market you lose . I remember in Bariloche from 2020 to 2022 it had the largest tourism boom in its history because of the special deals of previaje and its relative cheap prices . Now Bariloche Tourism has pummeted with tourism down over 30% since last year alone. By the way Antipodean I suggest that you read the links attached

Preocupación por la baja ocupación turística en Bariloche: Estamos vacíos

El presidente de la Cámara de Turismo de Bariloche, Néstor Denoya, advirtió en Cadena 3 que el nivel de ocupación para mayo no superaría el 20%, y pidió no volver a los años 90.

www.cadena3.com

 

[antipodean]

I see the facts on the ground and speak to business owmers reguarly and they all tell me that they cannot rent their apartments through airbnb and that their businesses are suffering . Why are you trying so hard to show that things are so successful in Argentina when clearly they are not Antipodean ?

Wow, a social circle of, what, 5-10 persons and business owners and their anecdotes is your sample size and entire reality?

I am trying to show the simple reality of what it happening in Argentina as am getting fed up with perverse exaggerations of how terrible it apparently is for everyone all of a sudden because "Milei" when very little has really changed for many people, while for some others their world has been turned upside down as it turned upside down for others before them. There is no way I am saying that Milei is responsible for the growth in inbound tourism either - it is a global and regional phenomenon. Yet you seem to be hellbent on not only blaming him for what you see as being wrong with the country, but also inventing problems to exaggerate your claims.

I feel sorry for you that you are unable to see beyond the doom and gloom or have only recently started paying attention to the problems that some Argentines have been facing for decades. I feel sorry that you perhaps don't have the same opportunities as me to see more positive facts on the ground in addition to the more negative facts on the ground.

 

[perry]

Wow, a social circle of, what, 5-10 persons and business owners and their anecdotes is your sample size and entire reality?

I am trying to show the simple reality of what it happening in Argentina as am getting fed up with perverse exaggerations of how terrible it apparently is for everyone all of a sudden because "Milei" when very little has really changed. There is no way I am saying that Milei is responsible for the growth in inbound tourism either - it is a global and regional phenomenon. Yet you seem to be hellbent on not only blaming him for what you see as being wrong with the country, but also inventing problems to exaggerate your claims.

I feel sorry for you that you are unable to see beyond the doom and gloom or have only recently started paying attention to the problems that some Argentines have been facing for decades. I feel sorry that you perhaps don't have the same opportunities as me to see more positive facts on the ground in addition to the more negative facts on the ground.

Once again your posts show that you love to embellish the facts as to paint a very rosy picture of something that is not . I have always been critical as this is my nature to observe and point out . I have posted articles but of course you have never read them because all is beautiful in Mileis Argentina . Gaslighting the messenger because he states realities does not change the reality !

 

[antipodean]

Take into account that probably most tourists who arrived in March planned this trip around December or before as people generally plan bigger trips in advance.

I think tourism could warrant a whole new thread. In answer to this yes and no...
- Latin America in 2024 is a "hot spot" for inbound tourism, so it is not just Argentina is seeing these trends
- Most inbound arrivals are from neighbouring countries that tend to book regional travel fairly last minute
- Of the 673.000 arrivals in March, 280,000 were by land (19% up YoY) which takes little advance planning
- Airlines are still reporting future bookings are up, for example hot week sale booking from Brazil to Argentina for later this year are reportedly 50% up versus last year (Brazilian inbound tourism is around 30% up despite it being more expensive than in 2023, it is still a competitive and popular destination for Brazilians)
- Latin Americans are travelling more than ever before and the bulk of their travel is within the region
- European bookings to Argentina continue to be strong, Iberia has added a third daily flight to Buenos Aires from Madrid for example and up-gauged to their largest aircraft type. British Airways is also up-gauging to meet demand

Once again your posts show that you love to embellish the facts as to paint a very rosy picture of something that is not . I have always been critical as this is my nature to observe and point out . I have posted articles but of course you have never read them because all is beautiful in Mileis Argentina . Gaslighting the messenger because he states realities does not change the reality !

You claim you want to see more tourism suggesting it can help solve Argentina's problems, then when more tourism is presented to you (even presenting raw data so you can come up with your own conclusions) yet you flat-out deny it because presumably it does not fit with a narrow view on Argentina today as it that would be too "rosy". Bueno - at this point it is starting to look like goldilocks and the three bears as to giving you some glimmer of hope.

For the record, I have not once said all is beautiful in Milei's Argentina, read my previous posts in this very thread where I have stressed that things are not well and good for everyone in Argentina and life continues to be crappy for many Argentines. The only Gaslighting I see is coming from you, my friend when confronted with facts that somehow dilute or don't match the tag-lines you're trying to (re?)sell.

 

[perry]

I think tourism could warrant a whole new thread. In answer to this yes and no...
- Latin America in 2024 is a "hot spot" for inbound tourism, so it is not just Argentina is seeing these trends
- Most inbound arrivals are from neighbouring countries that tend to book regional travel fairly last minute
- Of the 673.000 arrivals in March, 280,000 were by land (19% up YoY) which takes little advance planning
- Airlines are still reporting future bookings are up, for example hot week sale booking from Brazil to Argentina for later this year are reportedly 50% up versus last year (Brazilian inbound tourism is around 30% up despite it being more expensive than in 2023, it is still a competitive and popular destination for Brazilians)
- Latin Americans are travelling more than ever before and the bulk of their travel is within the region
- European bookings to Argentina continue to be strong, Iberia has added a third daily flight to Buenos Aires from Madrid for example and up-gauged to their largest aircraft type. British Airways is also up-gauging to meet demand


You claim you want to see more tourism suggesting it can help solve Argentina's problems, then when more tourism is presented to you (even presenting raw data so you can come up with your own conclusions) yet you flat-out deny it because presumably it does not fit with a narrow view on Argentina today as it that would be too "rosy". Bueno - at this point it is starting to look like goldilocks and the three bears as to giving you some glimmer of hope.

For the record, I have not once said all is beautiful in Milei's Argentina, read my previous posts in this very thread where I have stressed that things are not well and good for everyone in Argentina and life continues to be crappy for many Argentines. The only Gaslighting I see is coming from you, my friend when confronted with facts that somehow dilute or don't match the tag-lines you're trying to (re?)sell.

Your posts on this forum are not based on realities as stated by many members on this forum . You are posting false informations in your quest for what exactly ? I lived in Bariloche for three years and love that city more than any other on the planet . Tourism there has absolutely plummeted and guess from where most of the tourist come from in Winter Brazil .

Its very sad this has happened as Argentina was the premier tourism destination of Latin America and with its unique landscapes and rich culture deserves to be . Most people would prefer to visit Argentina if not for the price . In the 1990s with one to one under Menem tourism was very scarce on the ground as it was the dearest of the americas .

Once again I will post you the link stating the reality in Bariloche and its winter bookings . Did you bother to read it antipodean?

Preocupación por la baja ocupación turística en Bariloche: Estamos vacíos

El presidente de la Cámara de Turismo de Bariloche, Néstor Denoya, advirtió en Cadena 3 que el nivel de ocupación para mayo no superaría el 20%, y pidió no volver a los años 90.

www.cadena3.com

 

[FrankPintor]

Same point really. The same people who claim to be exasperated that Milei doesn't appear to have an economic plan were strangely silent when Alberto came out and publicly stated that he did not believe in economic plans.

It seems structural problems take time to fix. But as to whether the economy will improve in the near future, if I were you, I'd take Frank as the barometer. If he is already explaining away Milei's future success as being the result of Massa's policies, then we can all rest easy. He wouldn't be saying this if he wasn't confident that the economy will indeed turn around soon enough.

I hardly see myself as a barometer, though the word goes well with the phrase "raining Dollars" . But the economic impact of the harvest has been flagged long in advance, since December, or earlier, no barometer or crystal ball needed:

The countryside expects the second best harvest in history and it is expected that in 2024 the sector will contribute USD 10,000 million more than this year. This is predicted by the Rosario Stock Exchange, from where a grain production of 137 million tons is expected to be generated during 2024 after registering an improvement in the climate.

El campo espera la segunda mejor cosecha de la historia y se prevé que en 2024 el sector aporte USD 10.000 millones más que este año

Así lo prevé la Bolsa de Comercio de Rosario, desde donde se espera que durante el 2024 se genere una producción de granos de 137 millones de toneladas tras registrar una mejora en el clima

www.infobae.com

The central bank has been expecting Dollars since March, though there is the prospect of conflict with the agricultural sector regarding the exchange rate: BCRA, waiting for dollars from the countryside: will the official exchange rate be attractive to settle the harvest? The rains bring good news for soybean production, but the Government faces a challenge: convincing the field to liquidate the harvest with the current exchange rate.

BCRA, a la espera de los dólares del campo: ¿será atractivo el tipo de cambio oficial para liquidar la cosecha?

Las lluvias traen buenas noticias para la producción de soja, pero el Gobierno enfrenta un desafío: convencer al campo de liquidar la cosecha con el tipo de cambio actual.

www.ambito.com

This from April: The dollars from the harvest arrive and the reserves approached USD 30,000 million. The advance is much slower than usual but the volume traded yesterday in the market, of almost USD 600 million, seems to mark a turning point

Llegan los dólares de la cosecha y las reservas se acercaron a los USD 30.000 millones

El avance es mucho más lento que el habitual pero el volumen operado ayer en el mercado, de casi USD 600 millones, parece marcar un punto de inflexión

www.infobae.com

The Dollars from the soyabean harvest were expected to arrive this month (May): https://ruralrosario.org/detalle/2089/RECIEN-EN-MAYO-INGRESAN-LOS-DOLARES-DE-LA-COSECHA-DE-SOJA.html

Given that the seed purchases, and planting, took place under the conditions set by the last government (which may certainly not have been optimal, but getting the second-largest harvest in history suggests the conditions weren't too bad), it's hardly possible to claim that Milei has had anything to do with this. If Massa had won, the rain of Dollars would also have happened.

Nonetheless, Milei will take the credit. Worse, it will provide him with ammunition for his dollarization fetish.

I don't understand why, if you knew this was going to happen anyway, would you ramp up inflation, destroy people's incomes, increase costs, like electricity, gas, petrol, medical insurance, public transport... when all the money you need is going to arrive in 6 months or so?