Give This Man A Medal.

[Redpossum]

Matias, I have to say, I really admire the way you always speak for the poor. That's damned righteous of you

 

[PhilipDT]

These piqueteros people is the lower starta this country have. The most poor people. So while the State convalidates all this corruption of entrepreneur class, and big bussiness are being made, this people is the ones that pay.
I find ok that these people, the lower you can get in Argentine society, protest. They are the victims, they are the ones that pay for every thing that goes wrong in this country, corruption, mafias, they are the ones that most suffer, the ones that live in poorer conditions, the ones that get NOTHING from the state, but an isnignificant social plan of 2000 pesos. Work in negro, with no social cover of any kind, must use public health and education, which it can be good, but this is no Canada or Sweden.

So basically, this law criminalize their poverty situation and their right to protest. Of course came from right wing Pro.

Penalizing crime is not criminalizing poverty. As I'm sure Ed Rooney would be more than there are plenty of wealthy people who commit crimes and the vast majority of people living in poverty don't commit crimes. The only people who would be affected by this are the people involved in criminal behavior.

Not to mention a lot of the people who are cortando calles are not poor! They're often middle class university students & union workers making above average wages. But that's not point

The point is that we have planes so that people are not dying of hunger nor forced to live on the streets because they cannot pay their bills. Planes are so that people can live a decent dignified life even if with what they earn by working doesn't cover those costs. Providing a social safety net that not only catches the people at the bottom but tries to propel them upward, is nobel and human. It is the rest of society saying to those that need assistance, "Don't stress the numbers, we'll take care of the details". When people protest and block a street do you know how what they're doing, they're stealing from the poorest and most vulnerable people who actually need the planes. Not only because if they have the luxury to choose to go block traffic instead of working, they're obviously not that desperate and therefor are taking money from people who are that desperate, but also because do you know how much these protests cost?

Between the extra street cleaners to clean up afterwards, the police that have to be mobilized, the wasted gas from all the cars stuffed onto the side streets, the lost productivity from people getting to work late, etc etc.

That's a lot of money and public spending isn't infinite, there is scarcity. All of that money that is wasted is money that can't be destined to help people who need it. So if you're depriving $ millions to millions of poor people, it only seems fair to at least start paying them from your part.

 

[Matiasba]

The piqueteros ARE NOT middle class. As I said before, they are the lower you can get in Argentine society. Sure there ll be some mafias and some punteros organising and taking advantage, but the vastly majority are poor people fighting for rights. Its like the people on a villa that take Indoamericano park, there is something wrong of having these people living like that. So piquetes are to make some noise, call our attention.

Matias, I have to say, I really admire the way you always speak for the poor. That's damned righteous of you

Im not that, I m not that leftie or care that much of the poor. It obbeys to my formation, and to compensate this board prevailing opinion.

 

[citygirl]

I never have any idea what the piqueteros are protesting - there are no signs, nothing more than a bunch of people burning tires (yay, toxic fumes) or garbage in the middle of the street.

Nothing makes me angrier than them cutting off roads. I honestly have to fight my impulse to drive through it when I see it.

Everyone should have the right to protest. Brilliant. Gather at the Casa Rosasdo and protest to your heart's content. Gather in the plazas in front of the local municipality. But cutting off highways is beyond the pale. Since when did their right to protest trump my right to go to work, go the store, go to the doctor's, etc, etc? Even typing this, I can feel my blood boiling.'

And again - there are plenty of ways/places to protest - with signs even! - so their right to protest isn't being affected if they are restricted from cutting off streets/avenues/highways.

 

[Redpossum]

I never have any idea what the piqueteros are protesting - there are no signs, nothing more than a bunch of people burning tires (yay, toxic fumes) or garbage in the middle of the street.

Nothing makes me angrier than them cutting off roads. I honestly have to fight my impulse to drive through it when I see it.

Seriously? Being inconvenienced makes you want to kill people, or at least injure them severely?

Everyone should have the right to protest. Brilliant. Gather at the Casa Rosasdo and protest to your heart's content. Gather in the plazas in front of the local municipality. But cutting off highways is beyond the pale. Since when did their right to protest trump my right to go to work, go the store, go to the doctor's, etc, etc? Even typing this, I can feel my blood boiling.'

Whoa, serious anger management issues! But I guess I knew that from the way you jumped down my throat when I first showed up here.

Beyond the personal, you're missing the whole point of a labor action. The point is to be a pain in the butt. If no one is inconvenienced, then the action is pointless.

 

[thorsten]

So to sum it up, we don't want that a government/police/... cuts our personal freedom, but when random guys on the streets do it illegally then it's fine, because otherwise their action would be pointless <insert random facepalm pictures here>.

 

[AdrianB1983]

The piqueteros ARE NOT middle class. As I said before, they are the lower you can get in Argentine society. Sure there ll be some mafias and some punteros organising and taking advantage, but the vastly majority are poor people fighting for rights. Its like the people on a villa that take Indoamericano park, there is something wrong of having these people living like that. So piquetes are to make some noise, call our attention.



Im not that, I m not that leftie or care that much of the poor. It obbeys to my formation, and to compensate this board prevailing opinion.

what do you think a piquetero would do if I offered him a job? The vast majority are so ignorant they don't even know what they are protesting for. Do you know what do piqueteros protest for? Is it for planes sociales? Shouldn't it be for work? Many of them seem to be so proud of being piqueteros it has already become their job (pi-que-teros carajo!). This is not a percepction from a middle class person who lives in his apartment in Balvanera. I used to travel constantly in the Roca train to Constitucion and ran into them many times when they were not actually picketing but waiting for everyone to arrive at the station hall. I could tell from their faces, body language and little conversations that, sadly, they are just cattle serving the purpose of their masters. They always looked like little school kids on a trip to plaza de mayo. And the woman from the documentary I helped to shoot confirms this. Like many things in life piquetes started off as being real and then became a parody of themselves.

 

[Redpossum]

So to sum it up, we don't want that a government/police/... cuts our personal freedom, but when random guys on the streets do it illegally then it's fine, because otherwise their action would be pointless <insert random facepalm pictures here>.

Trying to draw a comparison between a repressive government that violates basic human rights, and a group of demonstrators that actually obliges you to drive a few blocks out of your way? Or maybe even, gods forbid, get out of your car and walk? <insert random laughing monkey pictures here>

 

[syngirl]

Seriously? Being inconvenienced makes you want to kill people, or at least injure them severely?



Whoa, serious anger management issues! But I guess I knew that from the way you jumped down my throat when I first showed up here.

Beyond the personal, you're missing the whole point of a labor action. The point is to be a pain in the butt. If no one is inconvenienced, then the action is pointless.

Rerdpossum, you've not been here very long, I suspect your joy at the anarchy of Buenos Aires and wish that we all just enjoy the inconveniences of protest will soon fade.You can only have your path blocked down Callo and Corrientes so many times before you want to lose it -- that corner is basically out of service 90% of the year. 9 de Julio is a mess regularly, anywhere between Obelisco and Casa Rosada has crap going on like 3 nights a week, and every couple of months the Gral Paz and / or Panamericana get shut down. Somehow I think your appreciation of these acts would be somewhat different if you actually had to get in your car or on a bus everyday to get to the other side.

Why should the people protesting at a single company be allowed to cut off the entire Panamericana? This has been the case with IBM, Kraft foods, among others. Not only is it just plain dangerous to have people cutting off a lane of traffic which has a speed limit of 130km/hr, what do those driving past a private company have to do with employee complaints? I have seen so many near misses where people have been almost plowed over -- we've also witnessed piqueteros cutting off the highways to the coast on the long weekends -- and then chucking rocks from the pedestrian overpasses onto the cars below. Inconvenience -- puhlease, most of the actions are far more than an inconvenience, they are a danger to everyone. And then one day when you accidentally hit one of the protesters running out into the highway, it will end up being your fault not theirs.

Friends of ours have lived near the Casa Rosada their entire lives, they put up with it, but they said it's gotten to the point you can't even leave the house most times because the people doing the protesting have become so unpredicatable you don't know when the violence will break out.

 

[thorsten]

Trying to draw a comparison between a repressive government that violates basic human rights, and a group of demonstrators that actually obliges you to drive a few blocks out of your way? Or maybe even, gods forbid, get out of your car and walk? <insert random laughing monkey pictures here>

First of all, I never said something about "a repressive government that violates basic human rights", I was talking about restrictions to personal freedom in general. Secondly, I don't even have a car here, but even a laughing monkey could actually realize that a street blockade also affects public transportation.