Give This Man A Medal.

[Redpossum]

Would I have the right to stand in front of your apartment door, block your movement whilst protesting your ignorance about the gridlock caused by protests here - even if it inconvenienced you as you went to eat your leisurely lunch?

Well, no, because it's a private building, and you have no right to come inside. But you could certainly picket on the sidewalk outside my building, and I would support your right to do so, however much it inconvenienced me personally.

 

[ARbound]

It's a terrible tactic to use, the picketers piss people off and their reason for protesting is lost in the fact they are the cause for any number of traffic issues or transit delays.

That being said, I like everyone else support their right to protest, just not to INTENTIONALLY block traffic. If you can actually get enough people to come out that it does occur than that's fine, but 10 people causing a traffic jam isn't justifiable, Argentina is a semi-democracy so I'm willing to bet the people annoyed out number the protesters.

Also, many bussinesses have to close or are blocked access too. When I protested the G20 summit I didn't block the Canadian version of the Interstate, that would make me an asshole, not a protester.

In a related note protests like this one are always gems to show friends how things are in Argentina lol

 

[PhilipDT]

Well, no, because it's a private building, and you have no right to come inside. But you could certainly picket on the sidewalk outside my building, and I would support your right to do so, however much it inconvenienced me personally.

You would support Joe essentially imprisoning you in your building?


Alright! Joe, I'll help out, send me a PM. We should start ironing out the logistics.

 

[ben]

I guess someone should come out and note the obvious. Since citygirl's last post, which included some very concrete points and examples, there were three responses from Redpossum to other posts - and none to the one in question. Which is kinda funny, seeing that the whole debate started with his analysis of citygirl's choice of words and emotions. But it's certainly easier than having to maintain a totally honest debate. Better a good brisk one, I guess. Sort of brings to mind the late commenters on this forum, Lucas and Cabrera. (Though they brought with their posts the intellectual stimulation of deciphering Argentine English).

To make things easier, I'll quote again:

Trying to draw a comparison between a repressive government that violates basic human rights, and a group of demonstrators that actually obliges you to drive a few blocks out of your way? Or maybe even, gods forbid, get out of your car and walk? <insert random laughing monkey pictures here>

A few blocks out of my way? I live in pvca and guess what, when they cut off highways, I can't get to where I need to go. And yes, it makes me rage-y. I once had my infant twins in the car, that I needed to take to a specialist in town, a specialist I had waited weeks for an appt, and I couldn't get there b/c the highways were blocked and traffic was backed up for hours. That's an extreme example but in general, my point is that my rights are no less than the right to protest. Oh yes, and get out of my car and walk was your other idea. Guess what, not all of us live in apts in town. And even if you do, again, people have the right to go about their lives just as much as people have to protest.

And again, they cut off highways. Not a small road in town. So it's not a question of driving a block out of your way.

PS - I never jumped down your throat. I pointed out that leaving the US b/c you were concerned about gov't intervention in daily life and choosing Argentina was perhaps not the best thought out of plans. But if you consider that jumping down your throat, have at it.

PPS - Let me reiterate since this point apparently gets missed ALL the time. People can protest. They should. But there are ways/places to do it.

 

[Joe]

I guess someone should come out and note the obvious. Since citygirl's last post, which included some very concrete points and examples, there were three responses from Redpossum to other posts - and none to the one in question. Which is kinda funny, seeing that the whole debate started with his analysis of citygirl's choice of words and emotions. But it's certainly easier than having to maintain a totally honest debate. Better a good brisk one, I guess. Sort of brings to mind the late commenters on this forum, Lucas and Cabrera.

To make things easier, I'll quote again:

There's a latin term for that: Baffle with Bullsh*t

 

[DontMindMe]

I have some not-so-fond memories of struggling to make my way around BA as an English teacher on days with insane protesting, and the frequency then was nothing compared to how it is now. There were times I cried in frustration at not being able to make it to classes, because that meant I wouldn't be paid for them. Sometimes whole days of work would be cancelled in anticipation. Other times I would be able to move around, but one night around 8 p.m. as I was walking down Florida to the Catedral subte station after my last class, there was a huge protest in addition to some construction going on. Someone was jackhammering and as I made an effort to give him a wide berth (there was barely any barrier and the concrete was flying) someone shouted in a bullhorn right next to my head. Temporary deafness was just what I needed after an 11-hour workday. What was the protest about? Horses' rights. Of course I was here voluntarily and could have left at any time, but chose not to. Stories like citygirl's are the ones that are really outrageous. One should be able to take his or her children to the doctor, for chrissakes. Aren't the limits of freedom supposed to be when it starts to impinge upon the freedom of others?

Now for the flip side... Until recently I've been living in a place where the (democratically elected) government shuts down protests as soon as they start. I did get caught in the crossfire a few times, middle of the day just trying to get somewhere, because I happened to be near a public university where students were protesting. I have had to turn around and struggle to find a bus to go home as my eyes burned with tear gas and gushed a quantity of liquid I did not know was possible. I have had to run as fast as I could along with everyone else around me (students, 9-5 workers, street vendors), once I heard the popping sound of rubber bullets, felt the telltale tingle of tear gas and then heard what may or may not have been a molotov cocktail. The crowd control surely disturbed the general public more than the students marching, or at least that's the conclusion I eventually came to. Tear gas floats a pretty long way, has no smell and quickly becomes invisible. Would the students have had molotov cocktails if they didn't anticipate the crowd control? I...don't know. I'll never know.

My point, if I even have one: A happy medium would be nice. Cause I've lived on both ends of the spectrum, and neither is pretty.

 

[Jaredberryman]

I am somewhat suspicious of the planes de trabajo and if they really get to the people who need them. I have met many poor people who really needed them and didn't have them. How do you get those plans and do you have to have political connections or know someone? Does anybody know how it works?