Greferendum

[Rich One]

No my perspective is balanced. I just don't give a free pass to the Crony Capaitalists.

The conversation should be why were Deutsche Bank and other Crony Capitalists bailed out at the expense of the European taxpayer. Greece should have defaulted five years ago, the banks should have been left to go bust. That would be the fair solution since the banks lent money that they shouldn't have. Instead the Greek person on the street is left to suffer when they were just pawns in a global Crony Capitalist game.

What about the Greek leaders that accepted the LOANS they should be thrown in jail ?, Papandreus ? and cronies . Assuming debt just to stay in power is a crime?

 

[Rich One]

In 2002 tango shoes become so cheap that foreigners were buying 10 pairs at the time.

This is how the equation you predict can help an economy like Greece to recover. Greece can be super cheap and this can produce work ans wealth.

Of course they cannot be as wealthy as Germans, but they can live without creating more debt. So, then, the wealth they were enjoying was fake, the huge debt they have is the evidence.

The Prediction of the Drachma at 30 % of the Euro value was forecast ed by EXPERTS..!

So the 100 Euro hotel room would cost 30 Drachmae.......
The Argentine 200 % devaluation was the motor that produced the Recovery...ending the fake convertibility., Send Cavallo to Greece.

 

[Joe]

I have great sympathy for the youths of Greece whose lazy corrupt parents were happy to play the European system and ruin the future for their kids. How about someone running a referendum in The EZ countries and asking my now retired but law abiding tax paying parents how they feel about paying for the eternal Greek fiesta. The culpability is on both sides. Stop with the poor Greeks victim mentality.

The Greeks have suffered. They've suffered greatly for 5 years. But the private bankers in their $5000 Hugo Boss suits in Frankfurt who bear the prime responsibility are still getting 6 figure bonuses, hookers and blow.

 

[sleslie23]

The Greeks have suffered. They've suffered greatly for 5 years. But the private bankers in their $1000 suits in Frankfurt who bear the prime responsibility are still getting 6 figure bonuses, hookers and blow.

I don't think anyone here is arguing with you on that point Joseph. But the old addage "It takes two to tango" applies here. What happened to the money that was loaned?

 

[toongeorges]

Joe try to have some sort of balanced perspective. The Greek people were more than happy to evade taxes and retire in their early 50s whilst their Northern European benefactors kept their nose to the grindstone till 67+....The creditors and the Greeks all have responsibility and leftish dogma blaming the evil capitalists is a conversation best left to the student union.

Or when an old family member died, they did not declare his dead, so they could keep collecting his pension.

The EC, ECB and the IMF have no plan to destroy Greece. Greece just has a non functioning economy, which needs to be fixed. The state accounts for 40% of the GDP and tourism for another 18%. The rest are mainly low skilled jobs. Greece exports agricultural products and basic materials without much added value, it does not export much with a high added value. People cannot sustainably have a high standard of living in such an economy.

And yes, that is a bad situation, but it is not the fault of "the capitalists".

Maybe Greece needs investments that will generate value, but would it not be up to Greece to identify and stimulate such investments?

 

[Joe]

Okay folks, we've already discussed the issue of Odious Debt at length in terms of Argentina. Rich One and Sleslie were apparently asleep in class ... again ... Toongeorges is probably a banker so what do you expect.

In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.[sup][1][/sup]

The Greek parliament has already declared the debts odious: http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-33179593

Therefore the responsibility in terms of human rights conventions is entirely in the hands of the Frankfurt Bankers and their odious co-conspirator private bankers and their crony politico allies around the world, but primarily in Germany, France and Greece - probably Belgium as well.

A whole generation of young Greeks have had their lives ruined by these parasites.

Yes rich Crony Greek politicians are to blame just as much as the crony bankers. They should all be executed.

In order to speed the process a guillotine should be placed outside this evil looking building:

 

[toongeorges]

The conversation should be why were Deutsche Bank and other Crony Capitalists bailed out at the expense of the European taxpayer.

Because banks hedge their assets. That is their function to generate wealth. Let me try to explain.

Suppose person A has 100 euro.

SCENARIO 1:
Person A can keep this money under his mattress, but then the 100 euro stays 100 euro and nothing happens.

SCENARIO 2:
Person A brings the 100 euro to the bank and earns interest on it
The bank lends 95 euro of the 100 euro to person B, so the bank earns interest for Person A and itself.
Person B buys services and goods for 95 euro from person C to run a business, so it can earn money for a living and to pay the interest to the bank

Person C brings the 95 euro to the bank and earns interest on it.
The bank lends 90 euro of the 95 euro to person D, so the bank earns interest for Person C and itself.
Person D buys services and goods for 90 euro from person E to run a business, so it can earn money for a living and to pay the interest to the bank

Person E brings the 90 euro to the bank and earns interest on it.
The bank lends 85 euro of the 90 euro to person F, so the bank earns interest for Person E and itself.
Person F buys services and goods for 85 euro from person G to run a business, so it can earn money for a living and to pay the interest to the bank

Person G decides to keep the 85 euro under his mattress.

In this scenario, Person A, B, C, D, E and F and the bank are all earning money, either through interest or through running a business.

Before new earnings come in, the total wealth of everyone is
100 euro (deposit of person A at the bank)
+ 95 euro (deposit of person C at the bank)
+ 90 euro (deposit of person E at the bank)
+ 85 euro (cash under the mattress of person G)
= 370 euro

There is only 100 euro cash in existence. The wealth is higher than 100 euro, because banks generate wealth through lending.

Though banks carry a risk.

Suppose person E needs 20 euro immediately.

SCENARIO 2a:
He goes to the bank and requests for 20 euro. The bank can only give him 15 euro and then goes bust, because it does not have any money left. Because the bank goes bust, every account holder loses his wealth.

After the bank goes bust, the total wealth is 100 euro: 15 euro withdrawn by person E from the bank and 85 euro under the mattress of person G.

SCENARIO 2b:
He goes to the bank and requests for 20 euro. The bank has only 15 euro, however the government jumps in and bails the bank out for 10 euro, the bank has now 25 euro in cash, but person A, B, C, D, E, F and G have 10 euro more in tax debt. In any case, person E gets its 20 euro in cash and still has a deposit from 70 euro at the bank.

The total wealth is now:
100 euro (deposit of person A at the bank)
+ 95 euro (deposit of person C at the bank)
+ 70 euro (deposit of person E at the bank)
+ 20 euro (cash under the mattress of person E)
+ 85 euro (cash under the mattress of person G)
- 10 euro (bail out debt)
= 360 euro

It is far cheaper for the taxpayer if banks are bailed out than if banks go bust! Banks that go bust lead to a massive destruction of wealth!

 

[camberiu]

It is far cheaper for the taxpayer if banks are bailed out than if banks go bust! Banks that go bust lead to a massive destruction of wealth!

And this ladies and gentleman, is how one justifies fractional reserve banking, one of the greatest cons in human history. The con artist can't lose.

 

[Joe]

It is far cheaper for the taxpayer if banks are bailed out than if banks go bust! Banks that go bust lead to a massive destruction of wealth!

Spoken like a true banker.

This narrative promulgated by the financial industry that bailouts are in all our interests is backed up by massive donations to politicians. It's all hogwash. The reason that bailouts have become mainstream is that the two biggest contributors (bribers) to politicians are the weapons manufacturers and the so-called financial industry. These people are pure evil.

Instead of bankers cutting back on their hookers and blow budget they would rather have people eating from dumpsters in Greece.

 

[Rich One]

Okay folks, we've already discussed the issue of Odious Debt at length in terms of Argentina. Rich One and Sleslie were apparently asleep in class ... again ... Toongeorges is probably a banker so what do you expect.



The Greek parliament has already declared the debts odious: http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-33179593

Therefore the responsibility in terms of human rights conventions is entirely in the hands of the Frankfurt Bankers and their odious co-conspirator private bankers and their crony politico allies around the world, but primarily in Germany, France and Greece - probably Belgium as well.

A whole generation of young Greeks have had their lives ruined by these parasites.

Yes rich Crony Greek politicians are to blame just as much as the crony bankers. They should all be executed.

In order to speed the process a guillotine should be placed outside this evil looking building:

What a crock, "Odious debt under coercion" is a free for all , I will tell this to my banker.....!



Yes Rich, Crony Greek politicians are to blamed just as much as the crony GREEK bankers. They should all be executed. True :wub: