Have You Experienced Prejudice Or Racism In Argentina?

[Matiasba]

Nice post ElQueso, I think that you re pretty accurate to have an idea of how discrimination in this city is. Theres a lot of discrimination against bolivians and paraguayans. A LOT. Especially in the lower strata, since they think they come here to steal their jobs. Also theres a lot of mafia in the villas with the peruvians. They are a large group. And people outside the villa says they steal, and are in the narco biussiness. Which can be like that, I think.

About the term Paragua. I heard it several times on TV, and every time with affect. I already told of the soccer narrator, he used it with every paraguayan player, and they are a lot. He used the APODO "Corky" to a former argentine player, MacAllister, which had resemblances with the character of the American TV Show (red head, etc). Until he once kicked his ass, and he never called him that again. So if Paragua was offensive, I believe some paraguayan player would have done the same thing.

But besides this example, paragua is not offensive, it is used lots of times to ofend, but per se, its not.

 

[Matiasba]

Casual racism, meet casual classism.

please, explain my racism (you or the ones who liked you)

 

[jp]

My comment wasn't directed at you Matias, I just thought it was silly to counter racism with classism.

My 2 cents - words lack intrinsic meaning. Their power derives from common understanding and the way they are used.

 

[Matiasba]

My comment wasn't directed at you Matias, I just thought it was silly to counter racism with classism.

My 2 cents - words lack intrinsic meaning. Their power derives from common understanding and the way they are used.

Ok, sorry then, I understood you were referring to me.
And agree, context is everything, although there are some words that always have an offensive and racist meaning, like the ones mentioned above.

Cheers

 

[Page8383]

Yeah, it's a charged issued - I'm almost too frightened to post anything on it.

Mati, I respect the angle you are taking when you say that certain names are not considered offensive in Argentine society.
However, I also believe that racism usually affects via the way it is interpreted and not by the way it is intended. I think that an Asian (non chinese) person would have every right to be offended by being called 'Chino' - Imagine if they were Tibetan for example? I think that would be hugely offensive to call a Tibetan Chinese over and over again.

My girlfriend used to call her old boss 'chino'. When I saw a photo of him I saw he was Japanese and I asked her if she would like being called "Mex" in my country because she has dark skin and speaks Spanish - so she must eat burritos and be from Mexico, right?. She said of course not and I agreed that she should never ever have to tolerate that, even if it was intended 'affectionately'. On a personal note I asked if she would mind not using the term anymore because I found that level of ignorance really unattractive in a person I want to be involved with long term. In a way it's totally uncool imo, but in another way I try to understand as she just didn't know any better because she has grown up and lived around that sort of attitude.

When I met her old boss and his wife I found out that they were actually both from Okinawa, which is a kind of Japanese sub culture (They consider themselves a different in some ways to the 'mainlanders' similar to the Catalans and the Spanish. He took zero offence to the nickname of course, because it is 'par for the course' here. Perhaps this is the boundary between ignorance and racism - intent to offend or degrade (I suppose we call it 'casual racism' also)

Mats, you sound like an intelligent dude and I think you bring a lot to the forum and I don't think you're a racist. But I think using those names is ignorant, and if the names are cool to use in some (not necessarily all) Argentine circles then in my opinion those Argentine circles ignorant. I certainly don't want to say that people who grow up in Argentine society are ignorant, because its certainly not true, but I do interpret these words as ignorant. Sadly, this attitude may result in a tolerance for racism / discrimination on other levels, whether it be against Bolivians, Paraguayans - whatever.

I've tried to put down some thoughts down without committing ignorance toward Argentina's customs myself, because they have their own way of doing things here thats for sure (Different to the western bubble I grew up in - and we definitely have our flaws too). I'm just saying it's not the same everywhere and in an international environment one needs to be sensitive (of course there is a line that crosses into over-zealous political correctness)

 

[Matiasba]

Of course I dont think its accurate to call every asian chino, and I personally dont use it. In fact, I dont use any of those terms. But I was talking of argentine society. It just the oposite of sophistication or cosmopolitanism or complexity as societies are today.
And the great majority of the people who uses knows that. They do know that there is a world apart from the chinos, in fact, we have a lot of coreans living in BsAs, so they, we, know the differences.
Its just that chino its not used as a nationality. It doesnt mean that. It is deeply rooted, from the time of tango, that every asian is chino. But not chino as a country. Its the same with gallego. To an argentine they are all from galicia? of course not, almost 10% of the argentines are o have basque background, for example, we know there are severals "comunidades autonomas" in Spain, that have huge differences from each other, with even local dialects, with ancestral comunities, with a great sense of belonging, etc. But we still call them gallegos. Yes its wrong and comes from a very elemental way to learn and know and refer to this people, but today it isnt stuck with that meaning, today its still used despite we know its wrong. But the gallego use refers to what in one important moment gallegos represented to the local people. Then, the myth was created and you cant stop it. Although is changing and with the last emigration to Spain in 2001, because of the experiences lots of argentine had, the difference between cities and cultures of Spain are penetrating deeper in argentine collective imagination.

 

[garryl]

unfortunately, ive seen and heard much more racist name calling from people of lower education. People of higher education might still think these things and they might even say them ocassionally but at least they know how to speak without embarrassing themselves with every other utterance that comes out of their mouth. It seems the poorer lower class Argentinians get their rocks off by calling the poorer paraguayans bolivian immigrants racist " nicknames ". Its their only chance at feeling superior to anything other than a bag of rocks. end rant.

true in every country.

 

[garryl]

Yeah, it's a charged issued - I'm almost too frightened to post anything on it.

Mati, I respect the angle you are taking when you say that certain names are not considered offensive in Argentine society.
However, I also believe that racism usually affects via the way it is interpreted and not by the way it is intended. I think that an Asian (non chinese) person would have every right to be offended by being called 'Chino' - Imagine if they were Tibetan for example? I think that would be hugely offensive to call a Tibetan Chinese over and over again.

My girlfriend used to call her old boss 'chino'. When I saw a photo of him I saw he was Japanese and I asked her if she would like being called "Mex" in my country because she has dark skin and speaks Spanish - so she must eat burritos and be from Mexico, right?. She said of course not and I agreed that she should never ever have to tolerate that, even if it was intended 'affectionately'. On a personal note I asked if she would mind not using the term anymore because I found that level of ignorance really unattractive in a person I want to be involved with long term. In a way it's totally uncool imo, but in another way I try to understand as she just didn't know any better because she has grown up and lived around that sort of attitude.

When I met her old boss and his wife I found out that they were actually both from Okinawa, which is a kind of Japanese sub culture (They consider themselves a different in some ways to the 'mainlanders' similar to the Catalans and the Spanish. He took zero offence to the nickname of course, because it is 'par for the course' here. Perhaps this is the boundary between ignorance and racism - intent to offend or degrade (I suppose we call it 'casual racism' also)

Mats, you sound like an intelligent dude and I think you bring a lot to the forum and I don't think you're a racist. But I think using those names is ignorant, and if the names are cool to use in some (not necessarily all) Argentine circles then in my opinion those Argentine circles ignorant. I certainly don't want to say that people who grow up in Argentine society are ignorant, because its certainly not true, but I do interpret these words as ignorant. Sadly, this attitude may result in a tolerance for racism / discrimination on other levels, whether it be against Bolivians, Paraguayans - whatever.

I've tried to put down some thoughts down without committing ignorance toward Argentina's customs myself, because they have their own way of doing things here thats for sure (Different to the western bubble I grew up in - and we definitely have our flaws too). I'm just saying it's not the same everywhere and in an international environment one needs to be sensitive (of course there is a line that crosses into over-zealous political correctness)

" I think that an Asian (non chinese) person would have every right to be offended by being called 'Chino' - Imagine if they were Tibetan for example? I think that would be hugely offensive to call a Tibetan Chinese over and over again "

Are Chinese offended when they are called Chino ? What is the translation ? Chino= Chinaman ? That will be absolutely offensive to Chinese.
One of the NBA commentators Steve Kerr called Yao Ming a 7"6 Chinaman during a TNT game, he was so embarrassed after he learned the meaning. I have heard enough Chino on the streets of BA, most of the time I just laugh, what can you do ? If you think it's offensive, then it is. If not, it's not. It's all in your head.
Each time you are called a Chino, or N word,or Cr*ker, or gringo or J*p, smile!

 

[Gringoboy]

Try being Welsh like me for a moment.
We don't get the sort of treatment other races get, but we certainly get enough from the English, or at least some of them.
Fortunately most of us are able to laugh it off, watch the boys give the English nancy boys a good thrashing down at the park and then pile into the pub for some serious practice with our right arms and the Devil's concoction.
When we see lines like this, we laugh our heads off:
'After the review was published Jonathan Edwards, the MP for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, reported the matter to police as well as writing to Home Secretary Theresa May, querying whether race relation law had been contravened.
or
'TV presenter Anne Robinson also angered the public when she asked: “What are they for?” when talking about Welsh people.'

Source: Walesonline.

 

[Rich One]

Racism is rampant here against all people with Altiplano features and Tan skin..... no doubt about it.. los "negros"