Have You Experienced Prejudice Or Racism In Argentina?

[Jaredberryman]

I have met so many people that blame all of Argentina's ills on Britain and the United States. I do not especially think my country deserves the prize for most moral. However, as far as I can tell, most of the problems here have little to do with external forces, and more to do with the people in the country itself. But, it's human nature to blame someone else for your own problems, so no surprise there. The first step to solving a problem is admitting it is your fault and then going from there to try to correct it. Unfortunately, since such a large group of people here are not reflective enough to realize that the source of their problems are themselves and the source of their problems as a country are their own people, nothing will truly change. Politicians who don't want things to change constantly look for an external force to blame, and that is what the Ks do to try and achieve the status quo. They spend a lot of time blaming companies, blaming the world economy, and even, in a roundabout fashion, blaming GB. It's a smart strategy on their part to distract people from the real problems.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I have met so many people that blame all of Argentina's ills on Britain and the United States. I do not especially think my country deserves the prize for most moral. However, as far as I can tell, most of the problems here have little to do with external forces, and more to do with the people in the country itself. But, it's human nature to blame someone else for your own problems, so no surprise there. The first step to solving a problem is admitting it is your fault and then going from there to try to correct it. Unfortunately, since such a large group of people here are not reflective enough to realize that the source of their problems are themselves and the source of their problems as a country are their own people, nothing will truly change. Politicians who don't want things to change constantly look for an external force to blame, and that is what the Ks do to try and achieve the status quo. They spend a lot of time blaming companies, blaming the world economy, and even, in a roundabout fashion, blaming GB. It's a smart strategy on their part to distract people from the real problems.

But it's a foolish strategy if you want to make the country successful.

 

[Matiasba]

I have met so many people that blame all of Argentina's ills on Britain and the United States. I do not especially think my country deserves the prize for most moral. However, as far as I can tell, most of the problems here have little to do with external forces, and more to do with the people in the country itself. But, it's human nature to blame someone else for your own problems, so no surprise there. The first step to solving a problem is admitting it is your fault and then going from there to try to correct it. Unfortunately, since such a large group of people here are not reflective enough to realize that the source of their problems are themselves and the source of their problems as a country are their own people, nothing will truly change. Politicians who don't want things to change constantly look for an external force to blame, and that is what the Ks do to try and achieve the status quo. They spend a lot of time blaming companies, blaming the world economy, and even, in a roundabout fashion, blaming GB. It's a smart strategy on their part to distract people from the real problems.

This is partially true. One can say that todays world is SO interconnected, so interrelated, with so many kind of bonds between different countries, commercial, financial, political, etc,.... and those bonds, those relationships are in fact power relationships, is not that every relationship between countries are in equal terms, theres always some part over the other, one that prevails. I dont know if you understand me, cause this is very difficult to express for me in english.
Basically, in 90% of the relationships between countries, one part prevails, use the context, the power, the conditions to win over the other part. For example, some big multinational company buying other local company, formally both win, because they agreed that bussiness, but in the long term, for a country, the big corporation gets bigger and its more difficcult to the State to regulate that. Thats why we have corporations with more power than entire countries.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

This is partially true. One can say that todays world is SO interconnected, so interrelated, with so many kind of bonds between different countries, commercial, financial, political, etc,.... and those bonds, those relationships are in fact power relationships, is not that every relationship between countries are in equal terms, theres always some part over the other, one that prevails. I dont know if you understand me, cause this is very difficult to express for me in english.
Basically, in 90% of the relationships between countries, one part prevails, use the context, the power, the conditions to win over the other part. For example, some big multinational company buying other local company, formally both win, because they agreed that bussiness, but in the long term, for a country, the big corporation gets bigger and its more difficcult to the State to regulate that. Thats why we have corporations with more power than entire countries.

Why, then, has Argentina been so incapable of projecting its own power even during times when it has flourished economically? How can the década ganada fail to win converts outside the villas and La Cámpora?

 

[Hybrid Ambassador]

Argentina sat too long on its laurels, it thought that the _década ganada_ will last forever !

As she said: _Esta década fue la ganada por todos los argentinos. Porque hemos reconquistados derechos que habíamos perdido. Hemos protagonizado en esta década el crecimiento social y cultural más virtuoso de nuestros 200 años de historia. Sobre todas las cosas hemos ampliado los derechos de las minorías, que las colocan en igualdad al resto de la sociedad_

Pero si en esta, la gran nacion nadie quiere pagar y contribuir con los impuestos,la década ganada, se convertiria en una década perdida..

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Argentina sat too long on its laurels, it thought that the _década ganada_ will last forever !

As she said: _Esta década fue la ganada por todos los argentinos. Porque hemos reconquistados derechos que habíamos perdido. Hemos protagonizado en esta década el crecimiento social y cultural más virtuoso de nuestros 200 años de historia. Sobre todas las cosas hemos ampliado los derechos de las minorías, que las colocan en igualdad al resto de la sociedad_

Pero si en esta, la gran nacion nadie quiere pagar y contribuir con los impuestos,la década ganada, se convertiria en una década perdida..

I think the Kirchners made the right decisions when they took power, though there really weren't many other options and there was nowhere to go but up. Still, they have never acknowledged any limits to their so-called "model."

 

[tapi_2]

My two cents as far as the Anti-Yanqui thing. Note: I am from the States.

I think lots of people around the world (not just Argentines) don't like the States. America is like a bully in a playground, using brute force or peer pressure to get the best for herself. As such, she's made lots of riches, and enriched a few countries as well. Like any empire, the Romans for example (The life of Brian anyone?), there are some positive and some negative things that occur the the "bullied" countries, like opening up trading markets. However, in the end, America is still the playground bully looking to suit herself as best she can and that really pisses off a lot of people.

Some people are envious of the States, it's true. They may not admit it, but they would like to have the power and riches that she has, but they can't, at least not at the time being. However, nobody truly likes the bully, though they may like it's power. Some people marvel at America, because she is so flashy in showing off all of her power and wealth. Eventually though, as history has shown, the bully ends up getting over confident and letting it's guard down. Then, that nerdy ethnic kid who got picked on for so many years, and was secretly pumping weights, decides to have a go at overpowering the bully.

Now, to interestingly tie this in with the original topic of racism, I'll quote Martin Luther King Jr:

"...And don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine, messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, "You're too arrogant! And if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God."

No wonder he was shot....saying stuff like that seemed to piss off a lot of Americans!

 

[internationalguy]

Arrogance, yes, guilty as charged. The romans, egyptians, Napoleonic french, Aesop's hare, Germany, the US of A (sadly). All have been very arrogant. People don't learn from history. Tapi, it's too late there has already been too much arrogance and we're past the point of no return. Our country has been great in many ways but has also been an arrogant bully that has used other countries and threatened others. I still feel proud of our good things. I would still do anything to fix what's wrong with it. Despite the fact that, like it was the case of those other world powers, the majority of their (an our) populations have also been guilty of the arrogance and have been willful participants in the bullying, many other people are extremely valuable and nice. My problem with nationalism and nationalistic stereotypes is that it denies the possibility of having some people from that country be different. People claim all muslims are bad. People claim all Americans are arrogant. People claim anyone south of the border is an illegal immigrant. The french claim all Americans are ignorant. Should I continue? Argentines claim that all Bolivians are... whatever, It's just a matter of human condition. I don't like it but it's the case everywhere. Unfortunately we live in a world like that. In the meantime I've learned to ignore ignorant opinions and stereotypes. If someone judges me for things that weren't my choice or were not up to me. Well, it's their problem, not mine. I will ignore them. Unless they plan to throw something at me, they can't hurt me.

Now, you talk about the wealth and power we have? You should have talked about the wealth and power we HAD. How wealthy can you be when you're 17 trillion in debt. How powerful can you be when Russia is willing to break 100 international laws and has no fear of retaliation. I think we're already seeing the decline and there's no turning back. Maybe now we can focus on being nice and finding a way to maintain the good things we have through our own means and hard work.

 

[AdrianB1983]

One thing I don't understand is how leaders in politics keep using the Falklands as a political flag if it was the military regime that became the strongest bearer of that flag. You would think that after that common sense would be more... common. Argentina has been an independent nation for what? 200 years, The Falklands have been under British Rule for what, 170 out of those 200?

Basically the dictators started THAT war. However in the region there's too much hatred among neighbors. Chileans and Argentines hate each other. Uruguay was created as a buffer zone because of the constant conflict and wars between Brazil and Argentina. Where all those dictators too? Back in the days of it's old glories, Argentina was very hostile towards its weaker neighbors.

I'm surprised you made those allegations, almost like you agree with the bashing of Americans based on poor decisions made by US presidents.

Finally, people should be allowed to wear whatever jersey they want. I own an Argentine jersey because going to the ARG- COL game back in June was one of the first things I did when I got here, I think since I'm here and I've been well received by Argentines generally speaking and I seem to like the country I should be showing my support for their team, unless the game is against one of my teams of course. If I choose to wear a US soccer jersey I want and deserve the same amount of respect someone gets in the US while wearing an Argentine jersey. Finally, history says that no European team has ever won a world cup played in the Americas. I think that will still be true after all is said and done. I also think Brazil will have ANOTHER disappointment with a World Cup final at home. I guess that leaves us few options.

Even if true, does that justify vilifying another person for wearing his country's jersey?

Also, what nationality were all those ecstatic people who filled the Plaza de Mayo to cheer Galtieri when he announced the Argentine invasion of the Islands on April 2nd of 1982?

What were we talking about? I thought it was the 30.000 argentines the dictatorship killed. If it's about the Malvinas then it's obvious they had the support of the country because we think they are ours and we were so dumb to think we could take them back by force instead of diplomacy. We don't go into a random (well, maybe not so random) country and wipe the shit of them in the name of "freedom and democracy". And let's not forget Bush got re-elected. That's what I don't like about your country. Look, my favorite band is Guns n' Roses and my favorite movies are all from Hollywood but not because of that I'll approve and like everything your country does. I praise and admire you for the great things you produce, but then I critic the bad things.

That's a good point. I have an Argentine jersey and I wear it here as well as in the US. Funny thing; in the US no one gives me a hard time for the Argentine jersey. Without exception the comments have been positive or inquisitive. "Cool, you live in Argentina? Have you been to a soccer game? How is the steak? What is going on with that President?" etc, etc.

I think it is because no one is envious of Argentina.

Come one! That's because the average yanqui doesnt't even know Argentina is a country. Aren't they like "sorry dude, uhm... Argenwhat?". Perhaps some Texans from San Antonio may know there's this distant, lost country called Argentina because of Manu Ginobili (after last year's finals they seem to hate the guy guts) and that's it.

And for me this country sucks because it's this volatile combination between:

1. extremely bad and corrupt politicians,
2. egoists argentine citizens (this obviously include argentines who own companies),
3. foreign companies and banks taking advantage of 1 and 2.

In the end it's our fault because if the first two never took place it would be impossible for the third to happen.

 

[Abby&Bebe]

I seriously doubt it's because the Argentines really care about all the people killed in US wars. Not that I'm supporting those wars, but I think this anti-US sentiment might come more from perhaps jealousy, and the fact that the US refuses to keep supporting Argentina economically or politically.

Firstly, I would like to say that I do not condone mistreating a human being over the political wrongs of their country. I think whoever acts rudely to someone over politics is a jerk. That said, this is not the first time envy is brought up as the "one size fits all" answer to any display of animosity toward the U.S. (from any ethnic group, not just Argentines) and it is quite frustrating to try to reason against such hubris. I think the people who were disrespectful to you were out of line. Still, this envy rhetoric needs to stop if we are to find common ground and mutual respect.

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine being treated poorly by someone (and, trust me, I have been!) and concluding it must be my superiority that this person can't tolerate. That's just amazingly immodest if you really give it some thought.

If you were to ask me why I dislike SOME Americans on SOME levels, this type of attitude at the very, very, VERY top of the list. Please believe be when I say that it has nothing to do with your country's economic performance, let alone Argentines not being "real" Caucasians as another person implied (I have enough blond relatives to be amused by claims that blonds feel like they don't fit in here. I also married a Chinese person so I'm not some type Nazi sympathizer as yet another person implied). My question to you would be, are you capable of interacting with a person of a different ethnic group as an equal? then we have no issues and I welcome you with open arms.

While wearing my Brasil shirt I've never had anyone say anything. When I wear my TEAM USA shirt I almost always get a comment or two. Most of the people that make comments appear to be poorer people. Sometimes, they'll say, "This is Argentina, eh?" When I reply, "Are you jealous? Don't have a visa to go? Don't have Dollars to travel?" that really gets a strong reaction. In my country boy thinking that means to me I'm getting close to the truth.

GS, you've answered your own question when you said the Brazil shirt did not get you in trouble. This is about politics and ideology. Of course, the person insulting you over your country's policies was completely out of line.

I read some of your other posts and could tell that you're not a bad person, so I'm hoping you will realize the problem with responding to heckling with even more offensive heckling. I have had my share of altercations with people from different nationalities and races, and something that always stuck with me were my mother's words: do not lower yourself to an insulter's level, you'll show yourself to be another bigot.

If, say, a Black person calls you a racial name, don't turn around and do the same. Even something as subtle as "are you jealous?" (which implies one is superior) or "cannot afford to make it out of the ghetto?" would not be much better. Please keep that in mind. In the heat of anger, that's difficult to do but it often helps to think about other people matching the insulter's description that could be in the vicinity and be (rightly) offended by our degrading words toward the insulter's heritage, country, SE status, etc.

Funny thing; in the US no one gives me a hard time for the Argentine jersey. Without exception the comments have been positive or inquisitive. "Cool, you live in Argentina? Have you been to a soccer game? How is the steak? What is going on with that President?" etc, etc. I think it is because no one is envious of Argentina.

"No one is envious of [insert a country]" would be a comment I would make if I were feeling very frustrated and resentful. It's not the type of comment one makes for the sake of honesty. For example, I know Paraguay is quite a poor country and my heart goes out to those who are struggling there or have immigrated here seeking a better life, but I don't dislike those folks enough to address them this way. Would you like to share why you're so angry at Argentines?

I would also like to invite to consider whether the positive reception you received in the U.S. while wearing a shirt from Argentina, wasn't in part influenced by your own appearance. When my mom was in the U.S., she had the time of her life (she looks Germanic). However, her Ecuadorian friend had a different experience.

I'm not saying everyone in the U.S. is a racist, but let's say it's not any less prejudiced than Argentina, in spite of the impression this thread might give.