Hola de Australia!

[steveinbsas]

It can never be a waste of time.

Go ahead and try. You'll probably have to use five different real estate offices. They might be willing to submit one offer that low, but they will consider it a waste of time unless the property is outrageously overpriced in the first place. Few properties are. You can learn a lot by searching for yourself on the web at sites like www.enbuenosaires.com.ar

I would also suggest you look up the difference between price per m2 paid and asking price per m2

If you "look up" the recorded price "paid" (the amount declared on the escritura) it probably will be 30% less than the asking price, but that can be very misleading. The amount declared en blanco is rarely close to the actual amount paid.

 

[qwerty]

I would talk to owners directly

 

[AlexfromLA]

You are looking about paying anywhere from 7-10% in closing costs. But the standard is usually just about 8%.

 

[steveinbsas]

I would talk to owners directly

Only a small percentage of apartments are offered for sale by owners. Most sellers want an agent to screen the clients to weed out jerks who would offer 30% less than the asking price (among others). A real estate agent like Perry (Pericles with ReMax) knows what's right and wrong and there are too many people who would do the foreign buyer wrong, given the opportunity. If you only deal with owners you will seriously increase your risks while seriously reducing the number of properties you will be able to see.

Even if you speak excellent Spanish, I suggest you see as many properties as you can through agencies, but you will find few of the small storefront offices staffed with agents who speak English. I recommend ReMax as their offices work together and they have many English speaking agents. Pericles is mine and he sold two apartments for me in less than two months (each). I discounted the list price less than 10% and accepted the first offer in both cases.

 

[BA Barrio Busquador]

Thank you again all for your comments, especially Steve. Very helpful. Just re: schools, this link might be of interest to anyone looking for schools:

http://www.autolinks.com.ar/sitiosrubro.asp?id=36

You can do a search by barrio. Nevertheless, I am still pretty much in the dark. A lot of the schools appear to be waayyyyyy out. I will continue my research and report back if I find anything more. I think the best way to go is look at the International Bacclaureate schools (sp?) if we want something that will translate internationally. British-based might be good too as the grading system is understood here in Oz (it is also best for us if the school year aligns with the Australian year, as it seems to in most, rather than with the US school year).

Thanks Steve for the tip re: Pericles - I've already stalked him out and we hope to meet up with him when we arrive for a reccie!

 

[steveinbsas]

Only a small percentage of apartments are offered for sale by owners. Most sellers want an agent to screen the clients to weed out jerks who would offer 30% less than the asking price (among others). A real estate agent like Perry (Pericles with ReMax) knows what's right and wrong and there are too many people who would do the foreign buyer wrong, given the opportunity. If you only deal with owners you will seriously increase your risks while seriously reducing the number of properties you will be able to see.

Even if you speak excellent Spanish, I suggest you see as many properties as you can through agencies, but you will find few of the small storefront offices staffed with agents who speak English. I recommend ReMax as their offices work together and they have many English speaking agents. Pericles is mine and he sold two apartments for me in less than two months (each). I discounted the list price less than 10% and accepted the first offer in both cases.

I'd like to add this to my previous post:

In my opinion, some of the properties offered by owners are so overpriced no agent will take them and an offer of 30% less still might be too much. For example, a member of this forum has been trying to sell an apartment for at least ten months. The asking price was initially $350K USD and one ReMax agent I know said he wouldn't take the listing. The price was reduced $240K USD and was listed with another ReMax agent a few months ago. I believe it is still on the market: The Most Beautiful Apartment in Buenos Aires" for sale...

 

[qwerty]

You only need one of willing to go for a 30% discount or atleast talk about one that is over 20% and there are plenty of people of willing and wanting to sell there appartment alone and that does not say you can´t get somebody else to help you it´s just not the real-estate broker

 

[steveinbsas]

You only need one of willing to go for a 30% discount or atleast talk about one that is over 20% and there are plenty of people of willing and wanting to sell there appartment alone and that does not say you can´t get somebody else to help you it´s just not the real-estate broker

Though there are exceptions in the tourist zone, Argentines don't usually price their properties with the intention of discounting more than 10% and brokers don't want to waste their time and money showing and advertising overpriced properties. Argentine buyers rarely ask for a discount of more than 10%, either.

It's also true that if a property hasn't sold after a period of time that many sellers will actually raise the price, especially with inflation clearly in the high teens. I did this in Mexico, raising the price of my house 15% a year for five years until it sold. My initial asking price in 2001 was $125K USD and my final sales price in 2006 was $250K USD.

Owners who try to sell direct also open themselves up to the possibility of being robbed by sinister types pretending to be potential buyers. They have good reason to be cautious and some are probably a bit paranoid. My agent (Pericles) always asked for phone numbers and full names of those making appointments.

If real estate brokers didn't provide a real (and valuable) service, there wouldn't be so many of them.

Congratulations to qwerty for the longest run-on sentence I have ever seen in the forum.

 

[BA Barrio Busquador]

I did indeed check out the "Most beautiful apartment in Buenos Aires" and while it is lovely my obsessive scanning of the real estate pages of BsAs means I have some idea of what is a reasonable price...

All this information above is very helpful.

We are looking for something a bit more "original" - high ceilings, french doors, possibly / probably a bit dumpy (i.e. something that we can afford ) and renovate at leisure. We know we really need to be there to determine what is good for us, but preliminary research certainly is useful. Thanks again all.

Because the average wage is low in Argentina, does that mean it is relatively cheap to get people in to paint, build cabinets, plumb in the toilet, etc? No doubt you pay for someone good, but do you pay aus / US type prices for skilled tradespeople?

 

[perry]

This is a topic that has various points of views but from one that works in the business I can say categorically that being a good realtor or real estate agent is a difficult job in Buenos Aires with very long hours, high expenses, and a predatory market that makes our job doubly hard.

A good realtor will take exclusive listings, priced correctly to the market, qualify and market the property to find the right buyer who matches the apartment. It is not easy to sell a listing to the suprise of many and most realtors are lucky if they sell one property a month. If you are an independent agent on commission basis your charges will exceed US 1000 per month most months and you can have dry spells where you are working 80 hour weeks with no incomes coming in for prolonged periods.

The most important key to success in this field is dedication and belief combined with knowledge of the market . Many excellent properties are not sold because the agency did not dedicate themselves to the product to the detriment of the seller.
I can think of three properties that I sold within 6 weeks that were listed with other well known companies for more than 12 months.
When I investigated the non sale there were many reasons but the most obvious one were very few showings, and a disinterested sellers agent who had no love nor knowledge of the listed property . For me I will not take a property listing if I cannot give my full commitment to the sale . This is paramount to being successful.

In regards to buying directly I have rarely seen a non agency listing that was better priced and in many cases they had legal issues with declaration of metres and selling price making them a unattractive investment. There is a lot that goes into buying and selling a property that many do not understand . The legalities of transactions and requirements set by laws are paramount to create a successful sale.


When one takes a listing with good intent and invests his time and his monies for a prolonged period it is a travesty that some will try to take the contact from you making a appointment to view the property and then with all the information at hand go directly to the apartment trying to bypass the listing agent.

When buying property make sure that you study the market first and do not buy a property impulsively but from the head . Location is most important combined with quality of construction and price. Make a calculated risk with your purchase as this will be a long term investment for 7 years minimum . In my opinion the better areas for investment in Buenos Aires are Congreso, Almagro, Balvanera, San Cristobal and Colegiales. Recoleta , Barrio Norte, Palermo , and Belgrano are good investments as well but make sure that you are paying the right price for the listing as there is a huge difference in prices for quality .

There are many gems out there for US $ 1000 a metre in great neighbourhoods that require little work . Good luck with your search.