how people live?

[Amargo]

In sum, it's not about we expats being unable to adapt. It's about having to listen to annoyingly arrogant, absurdly specious claims from locals about how great they are compared to the rest of the world.
I hope this has helped you to understand why expats may criticize some Argentines.

Who's being arrogant now???? You are visiting their country, please treat them with respect. Criticising is alright, it has to be done with respect.
Argentines have also the right to be proud of what they have/are. Why not? Other nationalities, like Brazilians or Americans are also very proud.
And definitely yes, whingeing about just everything when you are living abroad is a positive sign that one is failing to adapt.

 

[steveinbsas]

Who's being arrogant now???? You are visiting their country, please treat them with respect. Criticising is alright, it has to be done with respect.
Argentines have also the right to be proud of what they have/are. Why not? Other nationalities, like Brazilians or Americans are also very proud.
And definitely yes, whingeing about just everything when you are living abroad is a positive sign that one is failing to adapt.

I don't think any single expat has been whinning about everything or has even come close.

If the important issue in this thread is whether Argentines spend more time with family and friends than the folks in the USA I can only say I am happy that all of us (still) have the right to decide that for ourselves...and/or be alone if that's our choice.

I don't care how anyone else spends their time or who they spend it with.

And how could that make anyone better than anyone esle?

(With the exception of parents who abuse, nelect, or desert their minor children.)

 

[ElQueso]

Who's being arrogant now???? You are visiting their country, please treat them with respect. Criticising is alright, it has to be done with respect.

I completely agree with you on that one. I personally try to be direct and honest in my opinions, but I don't feel that resorting to calling people here "Argen-tinies" or even "Argies" is correct. In fact, it almost smacks of racism. Event hough many Argentinos I have met are quite racist, at least in regards to their less fortunate South American neighbors...

Argentines have also the right to be proud of what they have/are. Why not? Other nationalities, like Brazilians or Americans are also very proud.

I agree with this as well. However, when their pride is based on some false assumptions and puts down other countries in an attempt at false justification, it should be called out for those interested in attempting to arrive at the truth.

We Americans have many things to be proud of, but we also have many things to be ashamed of. I think just about every nation, in truth, is the same in that regard.

And definitely yes, whingeing about just everything when you are living abroad is a positive sign that one is failing to adapt.

I don't agree with that at all. I'm adapting quite well, but that doesn't mean I'll just shut up and not say anything. Particularly when most of my Argentine friends despise their government, the poor shape their country in general is in, and the despair at the completel hopelessness that abounds in many cases here,f or people who are "awake" enough to see the truth.

"Whingeing" helps me blow off steam that accumlates related to some of the sheer stupid things that happen here. It allows me to leave my apartment and interact with people without having all the frustration that accumulates as people give bad service, provide low quality products, and educate their kids into ignorance.

Hell, my portero is of German descent (his father immigrated from Germany in the early 50's), who cameto Buenos Aires from Entre Rios in the mid '70s. He speaks with a notable German accent He complains TO ME about his fellow countrymen than I do to him or anyone other Argentino I know. I think I'm actually much better adjusted than he is!

Of course, he was lately paticularly upset because his brother, who had managed over the last twenty years to build up a nice farm somewhere to the west of the city, was robbed by highwaymen on the road to selling his produce, and was told by them that he better start carrying more moeny with him when they stop him or they will kill him...

If adjusting means joining the society at the level that most Argentinos accept, well, I don't want that. I don't settle, but strive to make things better. If Argentinos honestly think they live a better life, fine, and there's nothing I can do about that - I'm not a citizen, just a resident and I can't vote.

But I sure as hell can let off steam

 

[Crema Americana]

I think there are certainly cultural differences between the US and Argentina, but a lot of it probably stems from economic status differences... or even rural vs urban differences... which every country has. Some of the most consumeristic people I know are Argentines. Their value of money is slightly different than in the US. Every time I go to the US the TV is filled with commercials for banks, investment, life insurance, stock brokers, Wall Street Journal subscriptions, etc. There's certainly more of a money culture than here where it's pretty basic - work and spend. But people from everywhere enjoy the latest gadgets or name brand clothes, especially those with some extra money to spend.

I do think Argentines are more family oriented than Americans... not that Americans don't love or spend time with their families, but kids go off to college or get kicked out of the house at 18 and family relationships (especially among extended family) usually aren't as tight.

Argentines often make due with less, but that doesn't make one culture better than the other.

 

[alpac]

Who's being arrogant now???? You are visiting their country, please treat them with respect. Criticising (sic) is alright, it has to be done with respect.
Argentines have also the right to be proud of what they have/are. Why not? Other nationalities, like Brazilians or Americans are also very proud.
And definitely yes, whingeing (sic) about just everything when you are living abroad is a positive sign that one is failing to adapt.

1. Pointing out the arrogance of others is not being arrogant. Your attempt to turn the tables with a silly, tit-for-tat accusation is evidence you have no valid response to the criticism of your inane remarks that Argentines have loftier values than others.
2. I disagree that criticism must always be respectful. It may be leveled with restraint and respect depending on the circumstances, but treating someone who calls me an untermensch with respect is absurd. Go f**k yourself - how's that for respect!
3. No one denies Argentines the right to be patriotic, but it is quite another thing to be so acutely jingoistic and arrogant as to claim that your (adopted) countrymen have nobler values than people from Europe or the states (as you did).
4. I have not observed expats whingeing (sic) about local conditions any more than Argentines. In fact, my take is that expats complain less than Argentines. After all, the expats are free to leave when circumstances get too unwelcoming. They have a remedy for the disappointing state of affairs not available to the locals who are required to grin and bear it or vent, which they tend to do with great regularity.

 

[marksoc]

But most of her Argentine friends spend all of their time partying and worrying about having fun and their parents not only ALLOW it but actually SUPPORT IT! Kids here as young as 13 start going out at night to juvenile clubs, mirroring the same thing many of the younger adults (and even older ones) do - partying all night long on the weekends and then dragging their asses to school on Monday, spending a day o two recovering, not worrying about studying and making good grades, but rather who is hosting the next party, or which club they are going to in the coming weekend.

I enjoyed my teenage years in Argentina a lot.. and still graduated (some 4 times!) thanks to the good public (free) education that I received in this country. Compared with other students in Tel Aviv University (the top school in that part of the world) I knew a lot more about almost everything, and still after going to nightclubs at 15-17 y.o. one, two or even three times a week. Thing is, when you can go out at a young age, you tend to get less drunk and be less insistent on trying to get everything in one night (the INfamous American "prom"). We did not have lockers in our public highschool, but we didn´t had extreme bullying or "winners" and "losers" also. I remember learning good maths, crappy English, some French phrases, a lot of good literature (from Bradbury to Cortazar), a lot of history, both European and American (pre-Colombine and after), and for some weird reason, how to type fast in a QWERTY keyboard (old typewriters) and thankfully how to write good essays.

 

[Misscarolina]

Hi, I am Argentinian and let me tell you, though we do consume, most do at levels that are different from the US.

Of course we would consume more if we could, but most will not consume more than they actually can, and that’s were we have a difference. We do not have “credit for ever” as used to happen in the US. Not meaning it’s either good or bad, just what it’s like.

Though we have some days with discounts, we would never engage in camping for 2 days near a shopping mall to get the new model or version of an Iphone or a pair of new Nikes. We would just wait to be able to buy it. Or save to do so. We would not consider ourselves poor if we do not own a cinema-looking TV. Some will go out twice a month if they cannot afford more untill they can get a better job.


We will chose what we want most if we can’t pay for everything we like. I chose a printer over a cell phone, I needed it more than the cell phone, just an example.



And this is by no means an attempt to set examples, but when I travel abroad, I do find consumerism to be higher.

 

[JoeGillis]

Rest assured, Misscarolina, that if the same ridiculous credit options seen in the US and other countries were available here, Argentines would snap them up in a heartbeat. As it is, Argentines do a pretty good job of playing the consumer game, especially considering that variety, choice, quality are minimal.

 

[steveinbsas]

We would not consider ourselves poor if we do not own a cinema-looking TV.

I have Argentine friends who have a 42" HD LED TV and pay DirecTV for the HD service. They don't have enough money to pay for the patentes for their late model car, but the car is not for sale.

They recently asked me to loan them $3000 pesos to replace a plate glass window in the local in front of their house so they could start a business.

The also asked me if I wanted to "consign" my art collection so they would have something to sell (in a town where there's no market for fine art).

And this is by no means an attempt to set examples, but when I travel abroad, I do find consumerism to be higher.

Of course "consumerism" is higher in countries where individuals have greater disposable income: countries where the economic controls (regulations) and bloodsucking (taxation) by the governments are less than in Argentina (though the US is trying hard to follow the Argentine model with 6000 new regulations so far this year re: health care/prescription drugs).

 

[Crema Americana]

We do not have “credit for ever” as used to happen in the US. Not meaning it’s either good or bad, just what it’s like.

I don't know, I was quite surprised that almost everywhere you go, they ask if you want to pay in cuotas! They sell something for $50 pesos, and have the 6 cuotas price right under it. It's pretty clear people are buying on credit and many indeed are living beyond their means and are in the red. Few seriously save. At least their properties usually aren't on credit.

As for camping out... well that certainly is American craziness. Our stores hype these events up (releases, Black Friday, super sales, etc) so it's often times more about the "event" or sale than product crazed people. If stores here did the same thing, I have no doubt people would be lining up. Say Falabella were to announce they're going to sell $5 toasters and $200 for a TV, it would be packed! Besdies, people here line up for everything else! Ever been to the movie theatre on a Wednesday or Thursday night?