Import Restrictions To Be Lifted

[ajoknoblauch]

What populists will never understand is that "protecting" things from outside competition doesn't do anything except restrict the possibilities. Populism has done nothing for the lower classes here, except ensure they have the same, horrible, low-paying jobs as always. It has ensured that the middle class will continue to split along the lines of those who can't make the right contacts and continue to slip into poverty, or join the crowd of corruption as they "join the club".

As CityGirl mentions, it's not just import restrictions.

Every law that is enacted to "protect" people, or industry, etc, does nothing but remove any competitive edge that Argentina has. Protectionism of jobs has been damaging this country for some time. High import taxes (protectionism) didn't do much to raise industry here, so the Queen has to go even further and completely restrict imports - which made things even worse. She says it's helping industry by holding up a couple of examples while completely ignoring all the businesses that are failing and people (like two of my programmers and many of their friends) who are leaving the country because of what it continues to become.

Isolation doesn't do anything today, for any country, as far as "creating" industry. "Not believing" in the free market is like not believing in the Laws of Thermodynamics. It ignores human motivations beyond the desire to not have to work for your life, which is what the free market is actually about.. You can try to control/manipulate the market to an extent, but to try to ignore it or say that it doesn't exist, or even worse "is evil", is quite tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and waiting for reality to pass you on by. It also breeds tyranny.

What really blows me away is that people can be so isolated from reality in this country that they actually believe things are better than they were a few years ago, and that Cristina is "on the right track". Only people who are very poor and ignorant, or people who are so far disconnected from those poor, can fail to see the reality these policies bring about.

I actually agree with most of what you have written here, but free-market fundamentalism brings its own problems: http://www.cfr.org/globalization/market-fundamentalism-review-joseph-stiglitzs-globalization-its-discontents/p4663

Keynesianism is a solution that can become a problem; free-market economics, likewise.

 

[Gringoboy]

We need opposing voices in the Forum to be a True democracy otherwise would be a yawn. Its unnecessary to challenge some opinions on Indec, poverty levels, etc. For kicks watch 678.... :wub:

Whoever said this place was a democracy?

 

[Ries]

Argentina practices obsolescence. Serious countries practice innovation.

"innovation" like a new Iphone every 18 months?

I have to call bullshit on this one.
There are lots and lots of consumer goods sold in the US that are crappy, with short lifespans.
The difference is, they are cheap.

New TVs, fridges, and stereos in the USA are not some kind of excellence in quality- they are just cheap.
I have had to replace several sets of $1500 washer dryers in the last couple years ( besides my home, I had two rentals and a kid who didnt have one supplied with his rental, so, at one point, I owned 4 sets)

And, in Argentina, there are actually a lot of QUALITY local items. I buy a fair amount of things that I take home, because the price and quality in Argentina are better than equivalent US goods.

Certainly, the crappy assembled in patagonia chinese electronics suck.
But Argentina makes quality, reasonably priced shoes, leather clothing, tools, knives, some kitchen goods, and many more items.

Almost all of the complaints about "argentine" quality are in comparison to chinese goods that are made under virtual slave labor conditions, and are so cheap that you dont mind throwing them away. I have found many quality argentine clothes, for example- they just arent as cheap as if they were made in Bangladesh.
There are certain products it just doesnt make sense to make in small quantites- cell phones, for instance, are reasonably priced only when the factory makes millions a year. There is no way an Argentine company could ever make a quality cell phone at a price to compete with Samsung.

That said, I am 100% in favor of more rational import taxes, and open importation of all kinds of things.
Its not a Black/White thing- its perfectly possible for Argentina to allow imports, and still strategically tax certain products to protect local industry.
Almost every other first world nation does this.

 

[Ries]

In terms of "hotbed"-
I may have mentioned this before, but many of my friends in the USA are knifemakers and blacksmiths. There is a very well made, "innovative" belt grinder made in Argentina, the SCA- http://www.scacnc.com.ar/index.html
In Argentina, its competitively priced with similar models from europe or the US.
But the ridiculous export duties, taxes, and restrictions DOUBLE the price when its landed in the USA, making it unfeasible to export.

This is a typical example- a good product, made in Argentina, which could easily be exported at a profit- but the government, instead of encouraging this, makes it so difficult that the company doesnt even try.
This story is repeated again and again with quality Argentine products I know of, from frying pans to agricultural equipment.
Its silly.
The chinese government spends billions encouraging export, subsidizing shipping, and making jobs and profits for China.
Argentina should do the same.

The shoe industry here could easily double or triple in size in a year if it was possible to UPS or FedEX boxes of shoes to the USA in a normal global fashion.
Argentina is set up so that many companies can profitably produce a run as small as a dozen pairs of custom shoes, and sell them at a price that competes with mass produced chinese higher end shoes.
I, personally, know a couple dozen US designers who would love to add shoes to their lines, and would jump at the ability to buy a hundred pairs a year of their own designed shoes for $50 USD/pair, a price that is eminently do-able here and now.
Again, the Argentine government should be facilitating this kind of thing- instead, it places every roadblock it can in the way.

 

[camberiu]

Again, the Argentine government should be facilitating this kind of thing- instead, it places every roadblock it can in the way.

It is not the government. It is that the business people here are not patriotic enough. (Trust me, I've heard this justification more than once).

 

[Matiasba]

So your rather become North Korea? That is interesting coming from someone who is in Mexico working to earn hard currency to finance leisure travel.
You don't need Cambodian salaries to attract capital. What you need is "estabilidade juridica", common sense trade laws, an educated work force (which you have) and a clear and fair trade rules. If you had that, investments would flood into Argentina.
Lots of investments are flooding into Mexico right now. Several companies are closing their plants in Asia and moving to Mexico, despite the fact that Mexican salaries are much higher and their labor laws are much more strict then those in China. At least some of those investments could be going to Argentina, if the situation there was just a little different. I know for a fact that many large Brazilian companies would love to increase investment in Argentina and tap your educated labor force. But the current economic/political climate in the country makes it impossible. You are shooting yourself in the foot thinking that "that which does not kill me makes me stronger". Argentina is its own worst enemy.

I didnt mean North Korea, maybe some European country not part of the EU.
The thing is that we have made that change, to "disciplinate" our industry by the world, and the loss was incredible: loss of argentine jobs, loss of our industry, precarization of our labour force, poverty, de-industrialisation.
Disaster.

As for Mexico, they have 60% under the poverty line, they have a lot (and by a lot I mean A LOT) of informal job, of street vendors, they even export poverty to the US!!
So clearly, despite investments in Mexico are a lot higher than in Argentina, despite having a "normal" economy, the social situation in our country is 100 times better. A million times better. In every sense.

 

[Matiasba]

Matias, because Argentina's crazy trade policies, this plant or a plant like this can never be build in Argentina.

we have Toyota

 

[sleslie23]

As for Mexico, they have 60% under the poverty line, they have a lot (and by a lot I mean A LOT) of informal job, of street vendors, they even export poverty to the US!!
So clearly, despite investments in Mexico are a lot higher than in Argentina, despite having a "normal" economy, the social situation in our country is 100 times better. A million times better. In every sense.

In every sense except that you are there earning in Mexican pesos, I assume. Which you can then use to buy all the things you are going to import back to Argentina, including US dollars.

 

[Matiasba]

Matias, speaking of extremes, don't you think it's a bit hyperbolic, even if you dislike the man, to compare Macri to the Junta? I'm not a fan of him or PRO either, but come on, this is just silly, even for you.

well, if you think that the Macri Group were one of the very benefitted by the Junta, and by this I mean, let them take debt in dollars and afterwards nationalizing it and transferring all that debt to argentine people, and then you compare their economic policies, their economic team, their speeches... the same people, the same families, the same ideology..... they were clearly on one side during the dictatorship you know?

The thing is that historically, during the XXth century, the right wing in this country had no political party, they had no way to compete to peronism democratically (anyway, if they did, they had no chance). So they frequently organized coups. Every coup was to promote economic reforms with the same orientation than Macri.

Now that coups are demode, they decided to start a political party.

 

[camberiu]

As for Mexico, they have 60% under the poverty line, they have a lot (and by a lot I mean A LOT) of informal job, of street vendors, they even export poverty to the US!!
So clearly, despite investments in Mexico are a lot higher than in Argentina, despite having a "normal" economy, the social situation in our country is 100 times better. A million times better. In every sense.

Then what the hell are you doing there? Are you a masochist? Why aren't you at the worker's utopia?