Is Argentina being sabotaged from abroad?

Dougie

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It's one of the most common tactics of socialist systems to divert attention to outside - purely to avoid people looking in the mirror. If you can convince the population you have a common enemy then you can control them as you wish in the name of patriotism and us vs evil.
Yes, but not only socialist systems. Governments of all stripes love to blame problems on a group of people or another country as the root of their ills.

It's usually the Jews, poor immigrants, yankees, "terrorists," etc.
 

antipodean

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Peronism, the defining political force of 20th century Argentina until today, was modeled on European Fascism (Nazi Germany, Italy and Spain...) Expert regimes in creating and blaming “the other”.

Blaming “others” is what fascists or any other type of populists with all their idealistic rhetoric do best when reality doesn’t go their way (which it never will when the state-centric model they adopt is simply unsustainable)

Listening to a Peronist, K or sympathizer blame all of argentina’s ills on a global conspiracy, hegemonic media or a one-time ex president is like listening to Hitler blaming minorities, Franco (or Isabel Perón...) blaming communists or Mussolini blaming opposition political parties. Same speech different words.
 

Sequoia1321

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Yes, it’s true that people play the victim game, and often are no better themselves if they were in a position of power. But in trying to counter those things let’s not over do it and say that it’s all your fault, because the “others” do indeed often sabotage and prey on weaker countries and have done so since the dawn of history. It can be a challenge when trying to balance or counter something, like for example, those old school weighing devices where you have to move the weight just enough to find the right point, which is not easy to do, and we often end up overdoing it in reaction to something else.
 

Quilombo

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Is Argentina being sabotaged from abroad?

Not any more or less than other developing countries.

I'm on the far left politically, and I've always found it fascinating that Peronists of all stripes love to claim that Argentina is uniquely sabotaged or undermined by foreign state and non-state actors; it reminds me of people who claim to be victims of "gang stalking", always believing they're being targeted by a vague group of people for unknown yet sinister reasons. From the Peronist prospective, if the US in particular was so set on destroying Argentina then why didn't they help Macri more? Why didn't they intervene to help him remain president?

While developing countries are undoubtedly undermined by more powerful and wealthier states, the way some people act and behave here you'd think we live in Iran, Venezuela, Sudan, or North Korea. Let's be honest though Argentina, while you're a beautiful country, the US, EU, Russia, and China just aren't that in to you.

Populist and authoritarian states historically have blamed minorities or foreigners for their problems as others have noted: it's easy as it requires no self introspection, like a man who blames the reason for him being single on liberal societies and cultural norms.

If we want to ask the real question as to who is sabotaging Argentina, the answer is uncomfortable, yet easy: it's everyone who has been issued a DNI. Argentina's biggest problem is Argentines, but that's a more difficult and confrontational conversation than simply blaming Yanquis and Peronists for a country that lurches crisis to crisis, year after year, whether the president be a Dictator, Radical, Peronist, or Macri.
 

W5cre

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Is Argentina being sabotaged from abroad?

Not any more or less than other developing countries.

I'm on the far left politically, and I've always found it fascinating that Peronists of all stripes love to claim that Argentina is uniquely sabotaged or undermined by foreign state and non-state actors; it reminds me of people who claim to be victims of "gang stalking", always believing they're being targeted by a vague group of people for unknown yet sinister reasons. From the Peronist prospective, if the US in particular was so set on destroying Argentina then why didn't they help Macri more? Why didn't they intervene to help him remain president?

While developing countries are undoubtedly undermined by more powerful and wealthier states, the way some people act and behave here you'd think we live in Iran, Venezuela, Sudan, or North Korea. Let's be honest though Argentina, while you're a beautiful country, the US, EU, Russia, and China just aren't that in to you.

Populist and authoritarian states historically have blamed minorities or foreigners for their problems as others have noted: it's easy as it requires no self introspection, like a man who blames the reason for him being single on liberal societies and cultural norms.

If we want to ask the real question as to who is sabotaging Argentina, the answer is uncomfortable, yet easy: it's everyone who has been issued a DNI. Argentina's biggest problem is Argentines, but that's a more difficult and confrontational conversation than simply blaming Yanquis and Peronists for a country that lurches crisis to crisis, year after year, whether the president be a Dictator, Radical, Peronist, or Macri.
You may have the right answer when you said “developing country”. Why? Argentina is only 40 years younger than the USA. Developing country is no longer a valid excuse.
 

Sequoia1321

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For those of you who thing Argentina will get “successful” with no worry about external powers, how do you define success? Dubai with all of it’s cool buildings? Kuala Lumpur? South Korea? Why is the United Nations run by a few powerful countries who can do and get away with so many things while others can’t do much and their voices don’t count very much? What do you think will happen if Argentina tries to get strong militarily and in other areas to be able to defend against possible threats from a major power? Or if a weak country tries to join other weak countries in a larger union with real teeth? The answer to this question I believe is that is when you might notice some pushback and pressure to keep those countries down. These events of whether there is evil foreign interference or not, are always rooted in the choice to prey upon or not to prey upon, to interfere or not to interfere. In turn, this choice depends on human psychology, and human psychology unfortunately often has a predatory characteristic. I think many so called “successful” countries are build on weak foundations and their strenght and success is an illusion, because they can’t protect themselves against a stronger power that can pose a predatory threat, such as the USA, which has a strong predatory culture in various regions, such as in the deep south, and various other parts of the country. All it takes is one conflict and a country could get devastated for generations. For example, the Mongol invasion I believe greatly destroyed civilizations in various parts of Asia and I believe even today those impacts might still be felt. There are many other example of what can happen to a country or people that can’t protect themselves. I don’t think the strong predatory cultures around the world would like it if a country tries to get strong to challenge their dominance, and I think they will interfere as they have done throughout ancient and modern history, and I’m not even a historian but I know of many examples of predatory foreign interference by great powers. For those who think Argentina is not important to the major powers, I would not be so sure about that. We live now in a very global world where a tiny island in the middle of nowhere can be of significance, where a small Island nation such as Great Britain became a major world power for a long time, where there are foreign military bases all over the world, and where a country can exert its force globally these days much easier than they could in the past, and where tiny countries can potentially form larger unions and become a major power. So yes, I believe they’re all more or less significant. My point is not to be defeatist or say that success can’t be done, or to say let’s blame everything or a certain country or people. At the same time, external threats are facts and rooted in human culture, and to say that there is no significant external threats to Argentina I think is far from the truth.
 

W5cre

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It doesn't take a crystal ball to see a new Venezuela appearing in Argentina. For the exact same reasons and it's all about the choices that have been made and continue to be made. Elections have consequences.
 

jbeas176

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having read both of john perkins books years ago and sitting around with friends trying to decide if was grassy knoll or not. i think china read it too and using it on their belt and road program. hugo chavez used to shake it during his speaches.
 
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