Is Argentina Still a Good Deal?

[tilkaratnedil]

Yea, that's scary stuff man. I don't understand how typical Argentinians are dealing with this stuff. They make way less than the typical expat.

Anecdotely inflation has been felt the most on the more discretionary of consumer spending, and most argentinians in formal employment have inflation linked salaries, so (again purely anecdotely) the majority of the lower middle class and above are not seeing too much difference versus say 6 months ago.

 

[oddDistribution]

Anecdotely inflation has been felt the most on the more discretionary of consumer spending, and most argentinians in formal employment have inflation linked salaries, so (again purely anecdotely) the majority of the lower middle class and above are not seeing too much difference versus say 6 months ago.

Ah that's interesting. I think that explains why demand hasn't subsided enough to reduce costs.

 

[oddDistribution]

I don't know about living like a king, but I live here well (for me) on less than half of that. I own my apartment.

How often do you go out?

 

[oddDistribution]

I live between São Paulo and Buenos Aires, last year it made sense to be here if your aim was to save money for whatever reason.
It was incredibly favourable for someone whose savings was in a foreign currency.

Being here now is even more expensive in terms of everyday shopping than Europe. I think I made a big mistake in returning, but hey I'm enjoying it anyway, I should have stayed in Brazil or gone to Peru.
Yesterday I bought a yoghurt , a pack of handkerchiefs and frozen brocoli in Carefour for 7700 pesos. That's £7. In London that would have been cheaper. Problem is WU exchange rate hasn't barely moved since october, and consumer prices have sometimes tripled.
The pricing issue is kinda complex, for example an avocado 2 weeks ago was 2400 ARS per unit but a taxi drive (8 blocks) was 1800 ARS, so I guess it's just a matter of navigating through these issues with a bit of knowledge.

Buenos Aires is an incredible place, it's impossible to get bored, but to reply to the original question, it's not the deal that it was a few months ago for sure. If you're here to save like I am (I'm studying and have no current income), then it might no te the best option

I love São Paulo! What are the costs like living there compared to BA? Is it actually much cheaper now with the increases in Argentina?

 

[SinPulgas]

How often do you go out?

I don't like to cook. On the other hand, I've never been to Don Julio. I've been eating in more, but I still go out a lot. I never liked paying "too much" for a meal in the US, and I don't like to do that here, either.

We could advise you better if we knew how you want to live here. I've read all your posts, and I still don't know, except that you seem extremely conservative.

Based on that alone, I think that if you buy your house (apartment) here, I think you'll weather any storm with 4000/month, and probably even with 3000/month. If you're adaptable, and don't mind doing your own cooking and conserving your money during times like this, I think you'll do very well here with 3000/month.

Yes prices have risen sharply, and my continue to climb in the short term, but there's a definite limit. I've been here 20 years, and I've seen lots of reasonably extreme ups and downs (I paid about $3/month for electricity in 2015 during Cristina's government, and as much as $60/month during the Macri years, then back to about $4/month during Alberto). The majority of people here are poor. You can't charge $1 for a bus ticket if a person is only making $3/day.

Buenos Aires is a great place to live, and I've always said, and still say, that it will be a better place to live if the Argentinos live better, even if I live a little worse.

I couldn't live on $1500/month (not even close) in Massachusetts (where I'm from). I live very well on that here.

My observation is that the biggest things to worry about long term are housing and health care. You can solve the first one by buying the place you're going to live in. The other one is trickier, and reading the thread about health care prices, it's a bit scary right now, but ultimately, it's the same issue as the bus ticket.

I think the best thing you can do to mitigate the risks is to have a nest egg, and try to live in a way that let's you add to the nest egg every month. I live well below my means, and it let's me sleep easily during times like these. I'm saving less from by below-$1500-per-month social security payments than before, but I'm still saving. In Massachusetts, you can't rent an apartment for less than $1500.

Maybe there are better deals, financially, in other places these days. I suppose it's probable (perhaps temporary, perhaps not). But I'm reading the recommendations of others here and I'm seeing, "smaller cities, towns in Italy in decline, living outside Buenos Aires," and I'm thinking, "What is it that you really want?" Maybe those things are things that interest you, and in that case, that's great. I like living here because I live in Buenos Aires, and it's Buenos Aires, and there isn't another Buenos Aires in this world. I considered a lot of other places around the world before moving here.

You seem so nervous and on the fence that it's hard to advise you. I thought about responding to some of your posts various times, but I wasn't sure what to say. I'm still not sure, but I decided to try to give you some ideas.

Moving to anywhere in the world like this comes with risks. You need to be flexible, and you need to be ready to change course if you decide that it's not for you. But if you can deal with the uncertainty and craziness, (a big"ïf"), I think you'll love it.

One last thing. Most of the people that are responding here and advising you, live here. They've been living here, and they continue to live here. There's a reason for that.

 

[sergio]

I don't like to cook. On the other hand, I've never been to Don Julio. I've been eating in more, but I still go out a lot. I never liked paying "too much" for a meal in the US, and I don't like to do that here, either.

We could advise you better if we knew how you want to live here. I've read all your posts, and I still don't know, except that you seem extremely conservative.

Based on that alone, I think that if you buy your house (apartment) here, I think you'll weather any storm with 4000/month, and probably even with 3000/month. If you're adaptable, and don't mind doing your own cooking and conserving your money during times like this, I think you'll do very well here with 3000/month.

Yes prices have risen sharply, and my continue to climb in the short term, but there's a definite limit. I've been here 20 years, and I've seen lots of reasonably extreme ups and downs (I paid about $3/month for electricity in 2015 during Cristina's government, and as much as $60/month during the Macri years, then back to about $4/month during Alberto). The majority of people here are poor. You can't charge $1 for a bus ticket if a person is only making $3/day.

Buenos Aires is a great place to live, and I've always said, and still say, that it will be a better place to live if the Argentinos live better, even if I live a little worse.

I couldn't live on $1500/month (not even close) in Massachusetts (where I'm from). I live very well on that here.

My observation is that the biggest things to worry about long term are housing and health care. You can solve the first one by buying the place you're going to live in. The other one is trickier, and reading the thread about health care prices, it's a bit scary right now, but ultimately, it's the same issue as the bus ticket.

I think the best thing you can do to mitigate the risks is to have a nest egg, and try to live in a way that let's you add to the nest egg every month. I live well below my means, and it let's me sleep easily during times like these. I'm saving less from by below-$1500-per-month social security payments than before, but I'm still saving. In Massachusetts, you can't rent an apartment for less than $1500.

Maybe there are better deals, financially, in other places these days. I suppose it's probable (perhaps temporary, perhaps not). But I'm reading the recommendations of others here and I'm seeing, "smaller cities, towns in Italy in decline, living outside Buenos Aires," and I'm thinking, "What is it that you really want?" Maybe those things are things that interest you, and in that case, that's great. I like living here because I live in Buenos Aires, and it's Buenos Aires, and there isn't another Buenos Aires in this world. I considered a lot of other places around the world before moving here.

You seem so nervous and on the fence that it's hard to advise you. I thought about responding to some of your posts various times, but I wasn't sure what to say. I'm still not sure, but I decided to try to give you some ideas.

Moving to anywhere in the world like this comes with risks. You need to be flexible, and you need to be ready to change course if you decide that it's not for you. But if you can deal with the uncertainty and craziness, (a big"ïf"), I think you'll love it.

One last thing. Most of the people that are responding here and advising you, live here. They've been living here, and they continue to live here. There's a reason for tha

Not sure about the bus analogy when it comes to health insurance. Some people can't afford private plans now and are being forced to use the public system. Some elderly are being forced to use PAMI because they can't pay their private health care premiums.

 

[SinPulgas]

Not sure about the bus analogy when it comes to health insurance. Some people can't afford private plans now and are being forced to use the public system. Some elderly are being forced to use PAMI because they can't pay their private health care premiums.

I knew that was a bit of a stretch. Maybe PAMI is the bus.

 

[oddDistribution]

I don't like to cook. On the other hand, I've never been to Don Julio. I've been eating in more, but I still go out a lot. I never liked paying "too much" for a meal in the US, and I don't like to do that here, either.

We could advise you better if we knew how you want to live here. I've read all your posts, and I still don't know, except that you seem extremely conservative.

Based on that alone, I think that if you buy your house (apartment) here, I think you'll weather any storm with 4000/month, and probably even with 3000/month. If you're adaptable, and don't mind doing your own cooking and conserving your money during times like this, I think you'll do very well here with 3000/month.

Yes prices have risen sharply, and my continue to climb in the short term, but there's a definite limit. I've been here 20 years, and I've seen lots of reasonably extreme ups and downs (I paid about $3/month for electricity in 2015 during Cristina's government, and as much as $60/month during the Macri years, then back to about $4/month during Alberto). The majority of people here are poor. You can't charge $1 for a bus ticket if a person is only making $3/day.

Buenos Aires is a great place to live, and I've always said, and still say, that it will be a better place to live if the Argentinos live better, even if I live a little worse.

I couldn't live on $1500/month (not even close) in Massachusetts (where I'm from). I live very well on that here.

My observation is that the biggest things to worry about long term are housing and health care. You can solve the first one by buying the place you're going to live in. The other one is trickier, and reading the thread about health care prices, it's a bit scary right now, but ultimately, it's the same issue as the bus ticket.

I think the best thing you can do to mitigate the risks is to have a nest egg, and try to live in a way that let's you add to the nest egg every month. I live well below my means, and it let's me sleep easily during times like these. I'm saving less from by below-$1500-per-month social security payments than before, but I'm still saving. In Massachusetts, you can't rent an apartment for less than $1500.

Maybe there are better deals, financially, in other places these days. I suppose it's probable (perhaps temporary, perhaps not). But I'm reading the recommendations of others here and I'm seeing, "smaller cities, towns in Italy in decline, living outside Buenos Aires," and I'm thinking, "What is it that you really want?" Maybe those things are things that interest you, and in that case, that's great. I like living here because I live in Buenos Aires, and it's Buenos Aires, and there isn't another Buenos Aires in this world. I considered a lot of other places around the world before moving here.

You seem so nervous and on the fence that it's hard to advise you. I thought about responding to some of your posts various times, but I wasn't sure what to say. I'm still not sure, but I decided to try to give you some ideas.

Moving to anywhere in the world like this comes with risks. You need to be flexible, and you need to be ready to change course if you decide that it's not for you. But if you can deal with the uncertainty and craziness, (a big"ïf"), I think you'll love it.

One last thing. Most of the people that are responding here and advising you, live here. They've been living here, and they continue to live here. There's a reason for that.

Thanks for this thoughtful reply.

My situation is a bit unique I think becuase I'm trying to decide when I'll be able to quit my job and retire. I have a relatively high paying job and if I quit I probably won't make as much again in the future if I decided to work again.

For this reason, I think I'm more cautious than someone that has a pension or social security and is just deciding where to live. If I were in that circumstance I would just buy a plane ticket and go. If I didn't like it then I would move somewhere else.

There's two ways to look at this. One the one hand, from the research that I've done, I should have enough in investments to live a comfortable life in many places. Life is short, and I want to enjoy the time I have before I get much older and my health starts to deteriorate. Also, I can probably continue to make some money on top of my investments doing online freelance work or consulting or maybe start some kind of online business. I could also just get another job if things didn't work out.

On the other hand, many would advise that I work even longer in order to pad my savings further. Some call this one-more-year-itis, meaning that it endlessly feels like you should keep working. This path certainly has merit though. Not the least of which becuase there is great uncertainly when you're trying to plan for the long term. As you mentioned, housing and healthcare are two big gotchas. I'm actually pretty reluctant to buy a place to live as well as I'm not a big fan of tying up so much of my assets in a place that may not work out long term. I haven't completely ruled it out though. It would probably be after living in a place for quite a while first.

Also, I do want a pretty comfortable life. To me this means going out quite a bit to eat at nicer places (but not Don Julio level nice), going to shows, dating, eating healthy food, etc. I wouldn't be spending money on wine or drinking though and I don't need a big fancy apartment. In line with this, I would want to live in a larger city. So, to your point, I wouldn't want to live in a small town in Italy or something. Maybe the second, third, or fourth largest city of a given country would work versus the capital though, etc.

It's really hard to nail down an answer, but hearing from others on the site is helpful.

 

[SinPulgas]

Thanks for this thoughtful reply.

My situation is a bit unique I think becuase I'm trying to decide when I'll be able to quit my job and retire. I have a relatively high paying job and if I quit I probably won't make as much again in the future if I decided to work again.

For this reason, I think I'm more cautious than someone that has a pension or social security and is just deciding where to live. If I were in that circumstance I would just buy a plane ticket and go. If I didn't like it then I would move somewhere else.

There's two ways to look at this. One the one hand, from the research that I've done, I should have enough in investments to live a comfortable life in many places. Life is short, and I want to enjoy the time I have before I get much older and my health starts to deteriorate. Also, I can probably continue to make some money on top of my investments doing online freelance work or consulting or maybe start some kind of online business. I could also just get another job if things didn't work out.

On the other hand, many would advise that I work even longer in order to pad my savings further. Some call this one-more-year-itis, meaning that it endlessly feels like you should keep working. This path certainly has merit though. Not the least of which becuase there is great uncertainly when you're trying to plan for the long term. As you mentioned, housing and healthcare are two big gotchas. I'm actually pretty reluctant to buy a place to live as well as I'm not a big fan of tying up so much of my assets in a place that may not work out long term. I haven't completely ruled it out though. It would probably be after living in a place for quite a while first.

Also, I do want a pretty comfortable life. To me this means going out quite a bit to eat at nicer places (but not Don Julio level nice), going to shows, dating, eating healthy food, etc. I wouldn't be spending money on wine or drinking though and I don't need a big fancy apartment. In line with this, I would want to live in a larger city. So, to your point, I wouldn't want to live in a small town in Italy or something. Maybe the second, third, or fourth largest city of a given country would work versus the capital though, etc.

It's really hard to nail down an answer, but hearing from others on the site is helpful.

When I was 47, I was in exactly your situation (and therefore I didn't have a reason to be more cautious than someone who had a pension or social security and was just deciding where to live). I quit my high paying job, sold my house and moved here, and never looked back.

I haven't regretted it.

There's nothing wrong with being cautious, but you may find yourself at 65, or older, still in the same place, wondering what might have been.

 

[sergio]

Thanks for this thoughtful reply.

My situation is a bit unique I think becuase I'm trying to decide when I'll be able to quit my job and retire. I have a relatively high paying job and if I quit I probably won't make as much again in the future if I decided to work again.

For this reason, I think I'm more cautious than someone that has a pension or social security and is just deciding where to live. If I were in that circumstance I would just buy a plane ticket and go. If I didn't like it then I would move somewhere else.

There's two ways to look at this. One the one hand, from the research that I've done, I should have enough in investments to live a comfortable life in many places. Life is short, and I want to enjoy the time I have before I get much older and my health starts to deteriorate. Also, I can probably continue to make some money on top of my investments doing online freelance work or consulting or maybe start some kind of online business. I could also just get another job if things didn't work out.

On the other hand, many would advise that I work even longer in order to pad my savings further. Some call this one-more-year-itis, meaning that it endlessly feels like you should keep working. This path certainly has merit though. Not the least of which becuase there is great uncertainly when you're trying to plan for the long term. As you mentioned, housing and healthcare are two big gotchas. I'm actually pretty reluctant to buy a place to live as well as I'm not a big fan of tying up so much of my assets in a place that may not work out long term. I haven't completely ruled it out though. It would probably be after living in a place for quite a while first.

Also, I do want a pretty comfortable life. To me this means going out quite a bit to eat at nicer places (but not Don Julio level nice), going to shows, dating, eating healthy food, etc. I wouldn't be spending money on wine or drinking though and I don't need a big fancy apartment. In line with this, I would want to live in a larger city. So, to your point, I wouldn't want to live in a small town in Italy or something. Maybe the second, third, or fourth largest city of a given country would work versus the capital though, etc.iuncon

It's really hard to nail down an answer, but hearing from others on the site is helpful.

it's very hard to advise you when we don't know your interests, the lifestyle you are used to, your level of tolerance for the inefficiency and inconvenience you will have to deal with in Argentina (and quite a few other countries) and just how much money you will be living on. I'd advise against buying when you have no idea whether you'll like it. I forget if you said you speak Spanish. If not, you're going to be isolated and dependent on others to do things for you (that would be true in other countries but in Euope you'll find more English speakers). Also take into consideration that Argentina is under a lot of stress, uncertainty with a lot of unhappy people nowadays. If I were you I'd hang onto my high paying job for another year and see how things are going in Argentina and the world. Can't you take a few weeks here and there to visit?