Is Buenos Aires a Third World City?

[Recoleta Carolina]

So if I understand correctly, because you can't wear a Rolex on Avenida Alvear BA is a third world city?

That makes perfect sense, not.

Give me a break. I have a feeling that you are sharper than you would like to appear. My point was only that you can´t wear anything that attracts unwanted attention anywhere. I don´t even own a Rolex. As bbw stated, it was just an example. The same would be said of cameras, cell phones, purses, etc.

But, what do you think of all the locks on the doors? Are they there for window dressing?

 

[bigbadwolf]

But, what do you think of all the locks on the doors? Are they there for window dressing?

Or go a little bit outside BsAs to some of the better suburbs and observe the broken glass embedded on the top of the walls, or the barbed wire, or the guards in their booths who have been hired by neighborhoods to patrol and keep an eye open. Is this all redundant, just paranoid behavior? Ask the residents about break-ins and other opportunistic crimes and you will get an earful.

Strange that some people here seem to be in a state of denial to what is patently obvious to even a casual observer. BsAs is not safe. It is not Lagos but it is also not Helsinki.

 

[Liam3494]

BsAs is not safe. It is not Lagos but it is also not Helsinki.

I think that is the point that a lot of people have been saying, maybe not as well, you've hit the nail on the head - It all depends what your comparisons are.

If you lived in Zurich (for example) and moved to BsAs it would seem third world, if you only had experienced Lagos (using your own example), then BA would seem much better. I have been lucky, and been around a few places, and BsAs is reasonable, it isn't Paris, but as you say, it isn't Lagos - I like it anyway....however you describe it.

 

[soulskier]

Give me a break. I have a feeling that you are sharper than you would like to appear. My point was only that you can´t wear anything that attracts unwanted attention anywhere. I don´t even own a Rolex. As bbw stated, it was just an example. The same would be said of cameras, cell phones, purses, etc.

But, what do you think of all the locks on the doors? Are they there for window dressing?

I think Argentines are super paranoid, hence the locks and bars. The first thing we did when we bought both our properties in Argentina was take off the window coverings.

 

[HDM]

Buenos Aires is not Lagos and it is not Helsinki, either.

Buenos Aires is also not Nairobi, Kiev, Tallinn, Macau, Hangzhou, Yangon, Carson, Younkers, Tirane, Zagreb, London, Hamburg, Stockholm, Madrid, Baghdad, Lahore, New Delhi, Colombo, Johannesburg, Sydney, Casablanca ........

It is Buenos Aires. It is what it is. If you don't like it, I don't get the feeling there are chains around your feet; you can fix it, fix what you don't like, or you can go somewhere else you think will offer you a better life, or you can just whine about it.

Look at the recent poll about safety in this city. There seems to be some disagreement. There are people who are paranoid in general, there are people who have become paranoid because something bad happened to them, there are people wearing rose-colored glasses, there are realists, there are chicken littles, there are people who like to just make the best of whatever place or situation they find themselves in .....

All kinds visit here.

I don't think it is hard at all to read between the lines, or simply just read the lines themselves, to see what agenda the message arises from.

But let's just accept that this is Buenos Aires and not some other place, and live here or not. If you have the power to fix its problems, then jump right in. I won't stop you.

 

[HDM]

PS: I cannot imagine that the loudest complainers here have very much experience in the wider world, because if they did, they would have a rather different feeling about what kind of city Buenos Aires is. What it is is a city of some 12 million people. Some other cities of this size are horrifying beyond reasonable description, cesspools of human degradation and terror; other cities of this size are among the most interesting and livable on the planet. Buenos Aires is not in either of those groups --it's more or less in the middle range, leaning toward better rather than worse. If you think it's bad here, you really need to get around more.

 

[HDM]

Oh, and one more thing, while I'm still in the mood.

I walk all over this city (no car), and I commonly see well-dressed business men wearing nice watches (at least they are pretty from distance) carrying bags that are obviously computer bags; I see women with logo handbags, I see tourists with big and small cameras, I see young people with ipods dangling from their ears -- they are everywhere, including the Subte; I see loads of people carrying large, filled shopping bags with exclusive shops, also on the Subte; I see laptops and cell phones on tables in cafes; I see people talking into their iphones standing on a busy downtown corner. In short, I see most people going about their daily lives in a normal manner, the same way I see them in London, Paris, Berlin, New York, Dallas, Los Angeles ... etc., etc., etc. I never, never see people on the streets who give the slightest impression that they are scared and cowering from the crime wave. I read about it (crime), I read here from two or three of you that crime is rampant in the city, but in reality I see not a shred of real life evidence that would prove it. I do not live in fear, and I have never once seen anyone acting on the street as if they are living in fear. But crime stories are sure entertaining to tell, aren't they.

 

[HDM]

This is the last time, I promise. This subject started out with a ridiculous premise and didn't improve. But my wife asked me to add something to my "one more thing." Jewelry and fur coats. She points out that she sees women on the street often who are wearing what appear to be diamond rings, lots of fancy silver rings, beautiful necklaces, carrying handbags my wife (who knows these things) say cost at least $100 US, and lately a whole lot of gorgeous fur coats. I guess that points up a difference -- I see computer bags and cell phones, she sees designer bags, jewelry, and fur coats. People on the streets of Buenos Aires are not cowering in fear, or if they are, they are damn professional at hiding it. If you are afraid every time you go out ... how sad.

Oh, she also wondered if Soulskier appreciates being called essentially dull. How's this for a backwards "compliment?" "I have a feeling that you are sharper than you would like to appear." Soulskier, are you trying to appear dull on purpose?

 

[Moxon]

With the most recent available statistics dating from 2007 and a government with a history of meddling with numbers it's kind of hard to produce anything definitive and so this thread (like a previous one) has devolved into two camps; those giving anecdotal evidence of the existence or otherwise of a crime wave and those trying to place Buenos Aires into a global picture (again on anecdotal evidence and impressions).

I'm sure it won't make a shred of difference to those with other opinions but I can't say I've ever felt unsafe in this city, nor have I ever been preoccupied with security beyond the most elementary measures you would take in any city in the world. What I can say is I don't think I have ever encountered a city where the difference between my perceptions of danger and those of certain other people have been so great.

Does anyone know who Hector Contreras is? This is what all the media created hysteria and celebrities calling for death penalties (if not dispensed by the state, then by the people) has lead to. You'd think it would have sparked some sort of debate or at least a little soul searching among those who bayed for blood so vociferously, but no, I think he lasted about 5 mins in the media (or was just ignored completely by some outlets). Compare this with the well known victims of senseless violence from places like San Isidro. The only difference seems to be socio-economic status.

It's interesting in these recent threads about crime, paco kids etc that nobody has mentioned the massive scaling back of public funding for social programmes (particularly for children) that has occurred under the Macri government. Again, almost completely ignored by the media; thoughtful analysis doesn't tend to work so well when your ultimate goal is hysteria. If this miserly philosophy is followed Buenos Aires will in the coming years begin to grasp fully what a crime problem or paco problem is.

 

[soulskier]

HDM, thanks for putting it in perspective. It really comes down to "life is what you make it" or "you are what you think" etc.

Please thank your wife for the compliment and tell her I much more exciting in real life. I actually get a kick out of being personally attacked on this board. It makes me think I must be doing something right.