Is buenos aires dangerous? Kidnappings & muggings: 2010 update

[WanderingTrader]

@Cheng - it happened within the last 5 month I dont believe its the article they shared here
@marksoc - I actually think that the police are in on it.. and with what I have seen it will get worse. They may not kidnap the average joe but muggings are getting more common. Im lucky it never happened to me

 

[Amargo]

It was one of his friends and he *thinks* it is not the linked case. The victim is named there. Very weird. Usually we know the name of our friends.
It always amazes me how some people on this forum know sooo many cases of people who were subject to crime. I think I know some 100 people in BA. From those 100 one had a stereo stolen from a car, another a coat from a restaurant and a lady had her purse stolen on a bus. That's it.
Not saying that BA is safe, there is a lot of crime. But considering the city has over 14 millions inhabitants, I think it is extremely unlikely that a single person knows many people who have been killed or kidnapped or subject to a serious crime.
Actually it is more likely to know some who have died in accidents.
And kidnappings, so far, has been rather a concern for Argentines.

 

[Uncle Dermot]

It was one of his friends and he *thinks* it is not the linked case. The victim is named there. Very weird. Usually we know the name of our friends.
It always amazes me how some people on this forum know sooo many cases of people who were subject to crime. I think I know some 100 people in BA. From those 100 one had a stereo stolen from a car, another a coat from a restaurant and a lady had her purse stolen on a bus. That's it.
Not saying that BA is safe, there is a lot of crime. But considering the city has over 14 millions inhabitants, I think it is extremely unlikely that a single person knows many people who have been killed or kidnapped or subject to a serious crime.
Actually it is more likely to know some who have died in accidents.
And kidnappings, so far, has been rather a concern for Argentines.

Wanna know a funny thing? A couple of months ago I went to visit a flat in Recoleta and the landlady, who was probably in her early 30s, told me that she had just come back from a trip around Italy and that she had enjoyed it a lot. When I asked her about Venice she told me she loved it, but that she didn't go out at all at night as people told her that it was a dangerous city...Now: the average Venetian is probably 70 years old, even if you read different guide books you will never read anywhere that Venice is dangerous, simply because by midnight the city is asleep and the few people you might meet around couldn't care less about you, it is a quite wealthy city, so it is very unlikely that someone mugs you. I don't find BA particularly dangerous, I don't stand out at all as I am pretty dark, the only valuable thing I own is my I-Phone, I use it on a regular basis on the Subte, even if my Argentinian friends don't even dare texting when travelling on the underground as they are scared someone might snatch the phone off their hands! My piece of advice: don't listen to what middle-class Argentinian people tell you as they are paranoid and they are scared of their own shadow. This is South America, it might not be the safest place on earth, but I am pretty sure that if you use a bit of brain nothing is going to happen to you!

 

[clooz]

Street violence in large cities is very specific to each area and block and intersection. One block can be safe the next block less so.

So better than generalizing to a city, it is useful to learn the specific location when violence happens and the time of day.

 

[steveinbsas]

Street violence in large cities is very specific to each area and block and intersection. One block can be safe the next block less so.

So better than generalizing to a city, it is useful to learn the specific location when violence happens and the time of day.

If this were the case, all the police would have to do to control crime is learn the same thing. The jails would be full in a couple days and BA would be safe, wouldn't it?

I witnessed several incidents of "street violence" while living in CF. They all were a result of a perp walking past an unsuspecting victim, grabbing a cellphone or purse and running like hell. I would call them all crimes of opportunity that put the perp and victim together by chance more than advance planning. The best example was a purse snatching in the sidewalk on Charcas at Conl. Diaz at 1PM. If this was a "dangerous" intersection I think a policeman would be stationed there all day, but then crimes like this would just happen elsewhere.

A friend of mine lives on Charcas near Plaza Italia. There is a police station on the corner closest to his building. That intersection is probably safe 24/7, but the walk to the apartment from Plaza Italia is far less safe, especially at night (the later the hour the more dangerous it becomes). The "margin" of safety would also vary greatly on an hourly basis with the choice of the "route" home from the plaza.

 

[Hache]

Marksoc said something crucial:

Kidnappers (maybe a group or two of ex-cops) do not target tourists for obvious reasons: difficult to get the ransom.

True, but many of you aren't turists and are living here. I haven't heard of any expats being kidnapped so far, but I think some precautions are always good. Keep a low profile. I don't know (and don't want to know) your status, but if it's high, don't let it show. Show yourself around driving a brand new BMW and you'd probably end up in someone's possible-target list and be scrutinized. If they find out you have a good position in some big company or have local rich friends/relatives, you could become a target. Being a target doesn't mean they want your money, as it's not just money they are after. Some of these groups are very professional, well organized and may want information. I know cases of people who got kidnapped for a few hours and set free after giving names and addresses of other targets. Most kidnappers are ex-cops, and interrogation is something they are very good at. They will make you talk, believe me. Someone in this thread said Argentines (or at least Porteños) are paranoid and it's true. Maybe I'm paranoid too, but if I were you I wouldn't take chances. It's dangerous people you want to avoid at all costs.

Just lay low.

 

[fcoulombe]

yeah buenos aires is a big city, there's crime and just about every single portenos that i have met do have a gun story (i do reckon that some of them just want to sound cool... geez they almost all have the exact same story)

but i've been living here for over 6 months and have a bunch of mates from different backgrounds. we all do find that it is fairly safe if you have a head on your shoulder.

kidnapping... im not sure how that would happen unless they target you for personal reason. the cab drivers are kinda psychos but they usually get you where you're going. and compare with asia... they pretty much never try to rip you off (i got ripped off maybe twice and my spanish is definitely not porteno)

random fights: i have been lucky enough to have not seen a single fight in BA in 6 months. and i go out in average once a week. nyway... compare with britain and australia... this is pretty peaceful place on the random bar/street fight level (provided that you stay out of the football scene)

getting mugged: trickier subject. i think it comes down to knowing where to go and how to get there(same as everywhere). i live in caballito which is considered as an "in between" neightborhood... (not fully dodgy but not fully safe neither), and i see single women walk around at 2am...

most tourists hang in palermo and recoleta which are relativly safe. high police presence and everything. my trick... stick to the main avenues when you're walking somewhere. there's usually cars and other people on the street and it is well lit. it is fairly easy to know where you're going since everything is square. if i need to take smaller streets at night, i try to maintain an imposing figure with the impression that i know where im going and i always have my keys sticking out of my fist in case something happens.
one of my mate got mugged the other day in bright day light but yeah... if you listen to the story... he was walking alone under a highway pass in retiro. a bunch of kids jumped him and stole his wallet with 100 pesos...

basically if you're not sure how to get where you're going or you need to cross some streets that look kind of dodgy.... either use a better street or jump in a taxi.

most of the violence in BA seems to happen outside the central area

note: some streets of san telmo are considered as un-safe and people will obviously target tourists there
the centro at night can also be dodgy in certain area. (dark streets with no cars)

 

[Napoleon]

I did get the full rundown today from Amiga A about her friend (we'll call her Amiga B) who got robbed ~two weeks ago. I barely know Amiga B, but we are technically Facebook Friends, so I can totally vouch for her existence. (She's English by the way.)

Anyway, I think she lives just south of Rivadavia between 9 de Julio & Callao.

So three guys were some how in her building, grabbed her, took her to her apartment, bound her, gagged her, and then proceeded to loot the entire apartment. No physical abuse to the Amiga B, but I'm thinking that psychologically she's going to be a little messed up for a while. She's in her 30s I believe, but she has chose not to tell this tale to her parents. (I haven't told my parents about being held up at gunpoint in a modest gated community 2 years ago, but some things are best kept underwraps.)

So add that one to the Tales of Crime committed against expats.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Napolean... have three friends, one was kidnapped and killed, second was a failed kidnapping attempt, third was a kidnapping and ransom. It is happening more frequently

Well, this is unusual nowadays.
If you know 3 cases, them somebody who you know is the one who is giving info to the kidnappers.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

If this were the case, all the police would have to do to control crime is learn the same thing. The jails would be full in a couple days and BA would be safe, wouldn't it?

No. They already tried it and it doesn´t work. The jails just collapses. Social assistance works better.