Is it better to apply for visa from inside or outside the country?

[SecretShopper]

From the date the application is approved (disposicion protocolizada), i.e., the date on the minute signed by the delegate. The minute appears to you on the system. (The DNI reaches your hands three to four weeks later.)

Ok. So 2 - 5 months for that. I'm assuming it's a faster process outside of the country. Assuming the consulates begin to process them soon.

 

[steveinbsas]

Longer than I hoped for. When does the time start counting towards the 183 day requirement. Is it when you receive your DNI?

What "183 day requirement" are you referring to regarding a student visa (if that's what you are applying for)?

Since my goal is applying for citizenship, it's the 183 days each year.

Foreigners with temporary residency based on the visa rentista and the visa pensionado must spend at least 183 days or six months of the year in Argentina, starting with the day they received their precaria (aka: disposicion protocolizada?) in order to be able to renew their visas. I've never heard or read anything about a "183 day requirement" in regards to citizenship.

As far as I know, the requirement for citizenship is two consecutive years of residency (aka physical presence) in Argentina. I don't know how long you can leave the country during those two years. I doubt it could be for six months at a time and that might be "unwise" if you need to appear at the secretary's office at any point on short notice...unless you have a lawyer who tells you when you need to be available and can adequately represent you if and when you are out of the country.

It might actually be the case that the first day you set foot on Argentine soil will start the clock ticking to fulfil the two year residency/physical presence requirement, regardless of the dates you get the precaria or the DNI based on temporary residency as a student.

 

[SecretShopper]

Foreigners with temporary residency based on the visa rentista and the visa pensionado must spend at least 183 days or six months of the year in Argentina, starting with the day they received their precaria (aka: disposicion protocolizada?) in order to be able to renew their visas. I've never heard or read anything about a "183 day requirement" in regards to citizenship.

As far as I know, the requirement for citizenship is two consecutive years of residency (aka physical presence) in Argentina. I don't know how long you can leave the country during those two years. I doubt it could be for six months at a time and that might be "unwise" if you need to appear at the secretary's office at any point on short notice...unless you have a lawyer who tells you when you need to be available and can adequately represent you if and when you are out of the country.

It might actually be the case that the first day you set foot on Argentine soil will start the clock ticking to fulfil the two year residency/physical presence requirement, regardless of the dates you get the precaria or the DNI based on temporary residency as a student.

I'm sure Dr. Rubilar can clarify this.

In terms of citizenship I would think its the same. If you need 2 years residency, and the requirement for residency is 183 days in order to renew for second year, then it's basically what's required for citizenship. Yeah the plan is to stay 6.5 months and then leave for 5.5 months before returning. Why would I ever need to make a short notice appearance at the secretary office? I would assume until you actually apply for citizenship you won't have to make any trips like that.

 

[steveinbsas]

In terms of citizenship I would think its the same. If you need 2 years residency, and the requirement for residency is 183 days in order to renew for second year, then it's basically what's required for citizenship.

Temporay "residency" granted by migraciones has a different meaning than the same word when when applied to the citizenship process.

If I correctly understand how it works, the citizenship process does not actually require two years of temporary residency granted by migraciones (though it apparently has in the past and probably would now if migraciones had control of the citizenship process).

I don't know if student visas are issued for a full year or just for the term of the course of study. Based on previous pósts on the subject, I don't think a student visa can be "renewed" the same way a visa restista or visa pensionado can. If not, you would have to repeat the application process each year (including getting a new FBI report if you leave the country?)

Yeah the plan is to stay 6.5 months and then leave for 5.5 months before returning.

If my information is corect, migraciones simply does not grant student visas if the course is less than six months of the year. Perhaps you can find a course that lasts two weeks longer than that, but that will not serve your purpose if the court considers eleven months out of the two years too much time out of the country to meet the two year residency requirement.

It would be "helpful" to know what would happen to your ability to get a second student visa if you do not stay in the country long enough to finish the course you enrolled in to get the first one.

As I see it, your plan (as stated) will only work if you can get "back to back" student visas (even if you have to repest the application process from scratch for the second one) that allow you to "study" in Argentina for 6.5 months each year and the court considers the 13 months you are in Agenitna for those two years sufficient to meet the "residency" requirement.

would I ever need to make a short notice appearance at the secretary office? I would assume until you actually apply for citizenship you won't have to make any trips like that.

I was referring to what actions you might have to take after you apply for citizenship that would require your presence in the country if and when the court dictates. It sounds like your original plan is to wait until you have two years of residency granted by migraciones to apply for citizenship.

PS As you may already know, Dr.Rubliar has indicated that you can apply for citizenship as soon as you arrive in Argentina (on a tourist visa) and completley bypass migraciones, but that entails life without a DNI for at least two years (possibly closer to three) as well as (I believe) staying in the country for most (if not all) of that time (until citizenship is granted). It also entails paying an attorney at least several thousand dollars.

As always, Dr. Rubliar is most welcome to correct or clarify anything in this post.

 

[steveinbsas]

As I see it, your plan (as stated) will only work if you can get "back to back" student visas (even if you have to repest the application process from scratch for the second one) that allow you to "study" in Argentina for 6.5 months each year and the court considers the 13 months you are in Agenitna for those two years sufficient to meet the "residency" requirement.

SecrteShopper, if I was in your situation, as well as wanting to know if 13 months physical presence in two years satisfies the "residency" requirement for citizenship, I would want to know if having a DNI based on a student visa makes any difference at any time to the court when applying for citizenship.

If it does,you might want to consider applying for citizenship as soon as possible after you get the DNI, depending on how much time you would have to (and are willing) to spend in Argentina during the two years, as well as how much you are willing to pay a lawyer.

PS: "Repest" should have been "repeat" and of course "Agentina should have been "Argentina" in my previous post.

 

[steveinbsas]

I would want to know if having a DNI based on a student visa makes any difference at any time to the court when applying for citizenship.

If it does,you might want to consider applying for citizenship as soon as possible after you get the DNI, depending on how much time you would have to (and are willing) to spend in Argentina during the two years, as well as how much you are willing to pay a lawyer.

Just to be clear (based on one of Dr. Rubliar's recent posts), you can apply for citizenship as soon as you enter the country for the first time. You do not have to have temporary residency granted by migraciones or a DNI to apply for citizenship, but if you don't, you will need a lawyer and I believe you will need to stay in the country most (if not all) of the time while your citizenship application is before the court...

...and it is not certain the citizenship will be granted.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

There is no need to wait until the second year to start the case.

In terms of citizenship I would think its the same. If you need 2 years residency, and the requirement for residency is 183 days in order to renew for second year, then it's basically what's required for citizenship. Yeah the plan is to stay 6.5 months and then leave for 5.5 months before returning. Why would I ever need to make a short notice appearance at the secretary office? I would assume until you actually apply for citizenship you won't have to make any trips like that.

No. The inmigración Law is a ius sanguinis (race) act (183 days rule), nationality is ius soli act (uninterrupted residency)(serfdom) and citizenship properly understood is about address you keep it as long and you keep you will to come back (freedom is debated frontera the freedom of address).

It is not about you, they decide.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Just to be clear (based on one of Dr. Rubliar's recent posts), you can apply for citizenship as soon as you enter the country for the first time. You do not have to have temporary residency granted by migraciones or a DNI to apply for citizenship, but if you don't, you will need a lawyer and I believe you will need to stay in the country most (if not all) of the time while your citizenship application is before the court...

...and it is not certain the citizenship will be granted.

It is always, sooner or later, recognized not granted, because it is a legal term that describes the free man, a right recognized in the Constitution so judges act as notaries. Our Law is a manumission act.

 

[SecretShopper]

Temporay "residency" granted by migraciones has a different meaning than the same word when when applied to the citizenship process.

If I correctly understand how it works, the citizenship process does not actually require two years of temporary residency granted by migraciones (though it apparently has in the past and probably would now if migraciones had control of the citizenship process).

I don't know if student visas are issued for a full year or just for the term of the course of study. Based on previous pósts on the subject, I don't think a student visa can be "renewed" the same way a visa restista or visa pensionado can. If not, you would have to repeat the application process each year (including getting a new FBI report if you leave the country?)



If my information is corect, migraciones simply does not grant student visas if the course is less than six months of the year. Perhaps you can find a course that lasts two weeks longer than that, but that will not serve your purpose if the court considers eleven months out of the two years too much time out of the country to meet the two year residency requirement.

It would be "helpful" to know what would happen to your ability to get a second student visa if you do not stay in the country long enough to finish the course you enrolled in to get the first one.

As I see it, your plan (as stated) will only work if you can get "back to back" student visas (even if you have to repest the application process from scratch for the second one) that allow you to "study" in Argentina for 6.5 months each year and the court considers the 13 months you are in Agenitna for those two years sufficient to meet the "residency" requirement.



I was referring to what actions you might have to take after you apply for citizenship that would require your presence in the country if and when the court dictates. It sounds like your original plan is to wait until you have two years of residency granted by migraciones to apply for citizenship.

PS As you may already know, Dr.Rubliar has indicated that you can apply for citizenship as soon as you arrive in Argentina (on a tourist visa) and completley bypass migraciones, but that entails life without a DNI for at least two years (possibly closer to three) as well as (I believe) staying in the country for most (if not all) of that time (until citizenship is granted). It also entails paying an attorney at least several thousand dollars.

As always, Dr. Rubliar is most welcome to correct or clarify anything in this post.

I have already been accepted into a 4 year program at a private university in BA. From the emails I exchanged with the consulate back in February, there is a 365+ student visa I can apply for. That seems to indicate that there is a student visa that lasts more than a year. The question is whether or not the university will ever be in contact with migraciones if I decide to never show up for class. I already have all the required documents from the university to present to the consulate.

Yes I understand that it is technically not required to do any of this but from all that I've read it seems to give you a better chance of success if you wait at least a year before applying and have real residency with a DNI.

 

[SecretShopper]

My plan is to hire a lawyer regardless. I just feel like having a DNI, a visa, not doing border runs, and still hiring a lawyer will give me the best chance of success. If somehow I don't get a multi year student visa and I have to apply again year 2 then I'll just do that.

I guess I'll have to discuss with a lawyer if only having 13 months in the 2 years look really bad.