It's started......

[ndcj]

Looks like Telecom Italia has announced they will invest $13 billion pesos over the next 3 years in Argentina, increasing it's commitment by 30% over the previous announcement made in May last year.

http://www.infobae.com/notas/616268...umentara-sus-inversiones-en-la-Argentina.html

En aquel entonces, el ejecutivo italiano dijo que llegó a Buenos Aires por "el compromiso con el país y con Telecom Argentina". "Es un país muy importante en el sector de las telecomunicaciones y el primero en la región", indicó, al tiempo que lo ubicó "como uno de los países de América Latina con mayor potencial de crecimiento".

Quick, someone better call them and tell them the sky is falling in!

 

[snowboarder]

ndcj we are talking about the real dollar i.e. "dolar blue". The black market dollar, fueled and probably capitalized by many KKs and their briefcases.

El dolar informal (see ambito.com for latest aprox value) that has gone up. Like you don't know this. Are you another K operative here to spread misinformation and spy on the Expat community for the K brownshirts (lol)?

Telecom Italia is a corrupt piece of work, ask your "ex-cumpa" Maria Julia Alsograray.

The Werthein group and Telecom Italia control Telecom/Arnet, they love it when politicians that take bribes easily are in charge.

 

[ndcj]

ndcj we are talking about the real dollar i.e. "dolar blue". The black market dollar, fueled and probably capitalized by many KKs and their briefcases.

The illegal, unregulated black market price has gone up, not the real market. The illegal market goes up and down based on perceived scarcity of dollars, nothing to do with the real market.

If I agree to sell you dollars at 100 pesos to the dollar, is the dolar azul now 100:1? In any event, you can find plenty of places selling dollars en negro for well under the stupid figures being published in La Nacion.

Anyway, surely as someone who rails against corruption is working en blanco with declared income, paying taxes, or a tourist who can provide ATM receipts to prove the ingress of funds, and therefore you have easy access to the real market for dollars, where you can buy dollars for ARS4.28.

www.dolarhoy.com

El dolar informal (see ambito.com for latest aprox value) that has gone up. Like you don't know this. Are you another K operative here to spread misinformation and spy on the Expat community for the K brownshirts (lol)?

Do you hear voices, too???

Telecom Italia is a corrupt piece of work, ask your "ex-cumpa" Maria Julia Alsograray.

The Werthein group and Telecom Italia control Telecom/Arnet, they love it when politicians that take bribes easily are in charge.

Undoubtedly. You won't get any argument from me on that. I wasn't holding them up as good citizens, just pointing out that some people with lots of money to invest are betting on Argentina's growth, not against it.

 

[evitaduarte]

What I get on the open market for a dollar is the real value of the dollar, not the artificial price set by the AR government. The real price of the dollar has gone up about 20% (from 4.2 to 4.99 pesos) in about 10 days.
The only people who would sell a dollar for 4.24 are those who are ignorant of the real price they can get in the open market. Try buying dollars for 4.24. Unless I am mistaken, you will find you are subject to a quota of how many can you can buy and the purchase being contingent on proof that you plan to travel internationally in the near future. To say the artificial official price is the real value is not just a question of semantics, but demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of reality, likely based upon severely wishful thinking that all is economically sound with the AR ship of state.
p.s. I will give you a premium of 4.3 for every single dollar you bring me. How many do you want to earn that premium on?

 

[davonz]

The illegal, unregulated black market price has gone up, not the real market. The illegal market goes up and down based on perceived scarcity of dollars, nothing to do with the real market.

If you try to exchange your pesos outside of argentina, i dont think you would be getting anywhere near US$1 for 4.25 peso - and i would call that the real market, the gov controlled exchange rate isnt the real market - just like the inflation figures the gov release are not the real inflation figures.. The arg gov can control the offical exchange rate inside argentina, but has no control outside in the real world.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/ARS/USD/graph120.html

 

[ndcj]

What I get on the open market for a dollar is the real value of the dollar, not the artificial price set by the AR government. The real price of the dollar has gone up about 20% (from 4.2 to 4.99 pesos) in about 10 days.

The open market has dollars for ARS4.28. If you're paying more than that for the US dollar, you're doing it because your fiscal situation is in some way irregular, or you're happy to pay a significant premium to be off the books for some other reason.

Central banks all over the world intervene to manipulate their currencies every day, in far greater volumes than the BCRA. Check out the flows of, for example, the Swiss central bank.

The real price of the peso against the dollar has fallen 0.7%. The risk premium for the illegal trade of dollars has gone up about 20%. This reflects the manufactured panic and the scarcity of dollars flowing into the parallel market, not any "real" value.

You can sell dollars on that black market and take advantage of that risk premium, obviously. It's no doubt very tempting, but in addition to getting a great price for your dollars, you're also doing your part to fuel some pretty shady movements of funds. Make no mistake, the bulk of the "parallel market" for dollars isn't little old ladies saving for their grandkids or expats paying their rent.

Argentina has been treading dangerously close to sanctions from the Financial Action Task Force for failure to implement appropriate AML/CTF regulations.

 

[ndcj]

If you try to exchange your pesos outside of argentina, i dont think you would be getting anywhere near US$1 for 4.25 peso - and i would call that the real market, the gov controlled exchange rate isnt the real market - just like the inflation figures the gov release are not the real inflation figures.. The arg gov can control the offical exchange rate inside argentina, but has no control outside in the real world.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/ARS/USD/graph120.html

That's a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how currency markets work.

If you can't get a good price for New Zealand dollars in the US at a casa de cambio, does that mean the NZ government is a fraud? Of course not, it means that there is limited demand for NZD on the street in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDARS=X
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=ARS
http://www.exchange-rates.org/rate/USD/ARS
http://fx-rate.net/USD/ARS/
http://themoneyconverter.com/USD/ARS.aspx
http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/Dollars-to-Argentine-Pesos-currency-conversion-page.html

 

[evitaduarte]

The risk premium for the illegal trade of dollars has gone up about 20%. This reflects the manufactured panic and the scarcity of dollars flowing into the parallel market, not any "real" value.

What you call risk premium and manufactured panic is nothing more than good old supply and demand. The black market for foreign currency will continue to grow and eventually, as in the past, the authorities will abandon any effort to control it. It will continue to exist until the AR government eliminates all controls on the free exchange of currency.

 

[evitaduarte]

That's a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how currency markets work.

If you can't get a good price for New Zealand dollars in the US at a casa de cambio, does that mean the NZ government is a fraud? Of course not, it means that there is limited demand for NZD on the street in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDARS=X
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=ARS
http://www.exchange-rates.org/rate/USD/ARS
http://fx-rate.net/USD/ARS/
http://themoneyconverter.com/USD/ARS.aspx
http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/Dollars-to-Argentine-Pesos-currency-conversion-page.html

Are you drunk or just obstinate? Davonz was not accusing the NZ govt of fraud. Why are you raising that issue as if he did? All he (and I) are saying is that the real value of of a thing, including NZ dollars, is set by a free and open market - a proposition with which you also now seem to be in agreement, contrary to the position you took above about how to define "real."

 

[marksoc]

What you call risk premium and manufactured panic is nothing more than good old supply and demand.

Supply and demand if you cannot prove the origin of your funds, meaning: that you are evading taxes. The vast majority of people that wanted to buy dollars in the legal places did it (of course, you will not read that in La Nazion).