It's started......

[evitaduarte]

Supply and demand if you cannot prove the origin of your funds, meaning: that you are evading taxes. The vast majority of people that wanted to buy dollars in the legal places did it (of course, you will not read that in La Nazion).

Not sure what you intend to convey. Supply and demand sets the black market rate. There can be no dispute about that.
The government is selling limited quantities of dollars to those who satisfy certain conditions. If an Argentine resident is reluctant to buy the legal limit of dollars from the government at 4.24 for fear it will expose him as a tax dodger, then he will turn to the black market.
Am I mistaken that dollars are available for purchase thru official government channels but only up to certain amounts and contingent upon international travel. I cannot imagine the government is selling dollars in unlimited quantities for 4.24 - where is the line for that window?

 

[ndcj]

Supply and demand if you cannot prove the origin of your funds, meaning: that you are evading taxes. The vast majority of people that wanted to buy dollars in the legal places did it (of course, you will not read that in La Nazion).

This pretty much sums it up. The rest is sour grapes that it's now difficult to evade taxes whilst simultaneously betting against Argentina's success.

If you're a tax resident (even if a "perma-tourist"), you should be paying taxes. If you're paying taxes, and declaring your income correctly, then you should have no problem buying currency in the formal market. If you're not, then why should we feel sorry for you?

Only 1.5% of operations have been declined. That means that out of 181,754 attempts to buy/sell foreign currency in the legitimate market since the changes until yesterday, 2,727 of them were rejected. Of course you'd miss that little piece of perspective reading here, or in La Nacion.

 

[davonz]

That's a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how currency markets work.

I would say that you are the one lacking of understanding of how currency markets work. Its not what you say or think the price is (arg gov), its what others are willing to pay (arg public / rest of world). And thats the same for currencies. Supply and demand. The lack of demand for the peso, means it is not buying the same amount of US$ as it was last week.

If you can't get a good price for New Zealand dollars in the US at a casa de cambio, does that mean the NZ government is a fraud? Of course not, it means that there is limited demand for NZD on the street in the US.

I have never used a casa cambio in the US, so i dont know, as i can use my ATM card from NZ and withdraw up to $2000 per day - unlike here.. so why would i ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDARS=X
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=ARS
http://www.exchange-rates.org/rate/USD/ARS
http://fx-rate.net/USD/ARS/
http://themoneyconverter.com/USD/ARS.aspx
http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/Doll...sion-page.html

There is a difference between what the sites you quoted above and what i quoted.. The one i quoted gets its cross rates from actual trades, not from tourist or retail rates.. they come from FXCM, which provides currency trading platforms - along with RT forex, IBFX, ALPARI, SAXO etc - so that data is from actual trades, not rates set by a gov.. like the arg gov.. But i guess you probably already know this !!!!!!!!

 

[ndcj]

Am I mistaken that dollars are available for purchase thru official government channels but only up to certain amounts and contingent upon international travel. I cannot imagine the government is selling dollars in unlimited quantities for 4.24 - where is the line for that window?

You are absolutely mistaken.

You can purchase unlimited amounts of currency, subject to proving the licit origin of the funds, and if over certain thresholds, the purposes of the transaction.

For low value transactions up to the limit permitted for purchases without a specific purpose (ie. savings), you do not have to prove the source of the funds in most instances if your situation with AFIP is ok and it matches with your income.

Here is the now published criteria for using earned income as the justification of the origin of the funds:

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/economia/2-181016-2011-11-11.html

Additionally, if you have an extraordinary source of funds, like sale of property, a car, gambling winnings, private loans (loans from banks are already fed automatically into the system), gifts, inheritances, etc, you can go to AFIP and show them the proof of the origin and you'll be allowed to buy/sell currency.

Companies, from small businesses all the way up to the largest multinationals, can also purchase unlimited amounts of currency for legitimate purposes such as import/export settlement, etc.

 

[ndcj]

I would say that you are the one lacking of understanding of how currency markets work. Its not what you say or think the price is (arg gov), its what others are willing to pay (arg public / rest of world). And thats the same for currencies. Supply and demand. The lack of demand for the peso, means it is not buying the same amount of US$ as it was last week.

Are you slow or just trolling?

The Argentine government helps control the price of the peso by being an actor in the free market. It does the same thing that almost every country in the world does. Central banks all around the first world intervene in their currency markets on a daily basis to control domestic monetary policy.

Yes, tax evaders, drug dealers, money launderers, etc, etc will all pay a premium for your currency to avoid detection by the authorities. This happens everywhere in the world. Yes, very good, it is supply and demand. Criminals want your money, they cannot access it through legitimate means, so they push up the price in the black market.

For those of you with such a problem with these new requirements, I'm interested to know if you've attempted to buy dollars en blanco, and whether you had any trouble?

 

[davonz]

Are you slow or just trolling?

Probably both... To many drugs when i was younger.. or maybe not enough !!!

The Argentine government helps control the price of the peso by being an actor in the free market. It does the same thing that almost every country in the world does. Central banks all around the first world intervene in their currency markets on a daily basis to control domestic monetary policy.

Yes, tax evaders, drug dealers, money launderers, etc, etc will all pay a premium for your currency to avoid detection by the authorities. This happens everywhere in the world. Yes, very good, it is supply and demand. Criminals want your money, they cannot access it through legitimate means, so they push up the price in the black market.

Can you please explain why the gov has only moved now to do this, instead of last year, or 5 years ago. And its the same gov as 5 years ago.
It is well known that BSAS is a major source of drugs, or departure point for drugs from south america. And has been for years.
Tax evaders - thats in the argentine blood and been going on here since adam was a cowboy.
Money launderers - well thats been going on here for years too..
Just seems strange that these laws were passed right after the election, and so quickly....

For those of you with such a problem with these new requirements, I'm interested to know if you've attempted to buy dollars en blanco, and whether you had any trouble?

No problems here, except the bank didnt want to change my US$ travellers cheques last week.. even though i had been changing them there for a few years now.. First time thats happened in any country..

 

[evitaduarte]

Ok. I stand corrected and enlightened regarding the type of restrictions on private purchase of US$ from the AR govt. I tried using your link in google translator to digest the exact conditions on such purchases, but the text of that link came out pretty convoluted - not sure how much was lost in the translation vs just being a very complicated formula to determine how many dollars a resident can buy.
I can understand the annoyance of honest tax paying Ar citizens that the
problems of working in negro and pervasive tax evasion have contributed to the quick growth in the parallel rate now that limits and conditions have been imposed upon currency trades. Tax evasion has been a serious problem, one that the IMF asked the govt to improve in negtiations for further credits. There's a little bit of chickens coming home to roost in this phenomenon (20% boost in a black market rate in little over a week), but as frustrating as it may be fr honest patriots, there is no reason to deny that the current parallel rate, whatever its short and long term causes, is being set by supply and demand.
One would like to think tht the government agencies resposnible for administering dollar sales would be able to streamline the process so as to partly thwart the growth ogf the black market rate differential, however, this rate differential is not just caused by the immeditae difficulty of obtaining dollars. It also has causes rooted in flawed economic policy that has artificially maintained the peso at elevated levels.

 

[evitaduarte]

You are absolutely mistaken.
.

Ok. I stand corrected and enlightened regarding the type of restrictions on private purchase of US$ from the AR govt. I tried using your link in google translator to digest the exact conditions on such purchases, but the text of that link came out pretty convoluted - not sure how much was lost in the translation vs just being a very complicated formula to determine how many dollars a resident can buy. Contrary to your information there are limits on the amount people can buyeven with income records.
I can understand the annoyance of honest tax paying Ar citizens that the
problems of working in negro and pervasive tax evasion have contributed to the quick growth in the parallel rate now that limits and conditions have been imposed upon currency trades. Tax evasion has been a serious problem, one that the IMF asked the govt to improve in past negtiations for credits. There's a little bit of chickens coming home to roost in this phenomenon (20% boost in a black market rate in little over a week), but as frustrating as it may be for honest patriots, there is no reason to deny that the current parallel rate, whatever its short and long term causes, is being set by supply and demand.
One would like to think that the government agencies responsible for administering dollar sales would be able to streamline the process (the cumbersomeness of which is contributing to growth of the black market) so as to diminish the growth of the black market rate differential, however, this rate differential is not just caused by the immediate difficulty of obtaining dollars. It also has causes rooted in flawed economic policy that artificially maintained the peso at elevated levels.

 

[elclandestino]

Are you slow or just trolling?

The Argentine government helps control the price of the peso by being an actor in the free market. It does the same thing that almost every country in the world does. Central banks all around the first world intervene in their currency markets on a daily basis to control domestic monetary policy.

Yes, tax evaders, drug dealers, money launderers, etc, etc will all pay a premium for your currency to avoid detection by the authorities. This happens everywhere in the world. Yes, very good, it is supply and demand. Criminals want your money, they cannot access it through legitimate means, so they push up the price in the black market.

For those of you with such a problem with these new requirements, I'm interested to know if you've attempted to buy dollars en blanco, and whether you had any trouble?

Most of countries, namely Latin American, are run by criminals

Unless it's a big amount, you can exchange money anywhere with no questions asked. Was possible even here till lately

Too strict controls create black markets and consequently organized crime. Al Capone and other vivacious types were raised out of prohibition, mind you

 

[snowboarder]

ndcj,

I'm not sure that you understand what freedom and what burden of proof are. Let me explain:

Why should I have to explain to the government where my money came from. I am innocent until proven guilty am I not? Well not in police states like China, North Korea and now Argentina? The AFIP should have the burden to prove that my money is not clean. They should not ex-ante have me grovel, waste time, stand in lines to do what I want with my money. Am I not a free man?

Live free or die. What do you not understand?

Why are you so quick to bend over in front of the government? You must like being told what to do, when to do it and how to do it.

Not I, F'off and die corrupt fascist K pigs with leftist disguises.