Kicillof Pays To 92% Of Bondholders, Griesa's Move Now?

[Matiasba]

... and just another government in a long line of governments that continue to steal from the same people who elected them.

Matias, I appreciate your enthusiasm in favor of CFK, et all and what you wrote above has some merit but don't you think the average Argentine despises politicians? Does the average Argentine think CFK really made her wealth from her work as a lawyer? That's the real undermine of confidence - that politicians work for themselves, not for the average Argentine.

GS

The key to understand corruption is distinction. This government is corrupt, and so was the past, and the one before that. And the next, and the next after that, etc. Corruption is constant, its not a variable. So if is not a variable, you just cant analyse, any analysis is futile.

There is soooooo much apart from corruption to analyse!!

 

[ajoknoblauch]

The key to understand corruption is distinction. This government is corrupt, and so was the past, and the one before that. And the next, and the next after that, etc. Corruption is constant, its not a variable. So if is not a variable, you just cant analyse, any analysis is futile.

There is soooooo much apart from corruption to analyse!!

Corruption, then, gets all the credit for Argentina's stability.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Nonsense. As I have told before, the Argentine government stepped up bond issuance in the years 1999 to 2002 (more than half the bonds were issued in those 4 years) - which dictatorship?

videla's. Before him the Debt was 4 billion. After him 90. His goverment enforced a neoliberal economy.
Menem did the same, another 90 billion Debt.

 

[camberiu]

The Clinton-Gore administration negotiated the Kyoto Protocol and signed on November 12, 1998.

Which does not mean jack shit until ratified by congress, which never happened.

 

[Don Alberto]

videla's. Before him the Debt was 4 billion. After him 90. His goverment enforced a neoliberal economy.
Menem did the same, another 90 billion Debt.

In 1981-82 most of the private foreign debt of US$ 4.5 billion was taken over by the state. US$ 4.5 billion, not 90 billion.

After 1983 when the democracy was restored and Raúl Alfonsín was the president, the Argentine state continued increasing the foreign debt. Between 1983 and 1989 public debt grew at the cumulative rate of 12.6 percent per year.

You may not know this, but Menem was actually a democratically elected president, a peronist from Partido Justicialista, who was re-elected after his first period as a president, something which seems to indicate that the Argentine electorate was satisfied with him.

I don't know where you get your information, but perhaps you should read this official Argentine document of 27 August 2013:

http://es.scribd.com.../Canje-de-Deuda

in which it says (folio 1):

"... la Argentina defalteó exactamente 81.836 millones de dólares.
De ese monto 81.836 millones de dólares, un 49 por ciento, esto es 40.363 millones, habían sido contraidos durante la administración gubernamental que tuve lugar entre los años 1989 y 1999; el 51 por ciento restante, es decir 41 473 millones, fue contrado entre los años 1999 y el momento de declararse el default."

 

[French jurist]

I don't know where you get your information, but perhaps you should read this official Argentine document of 27 August 2013:

http://es.scribd.com.../Canje-de-Deuda

in which it says (folio 1):

"... la Argentina defalteó exactamente 81.836 millones de dólares.
De ese monto 81.836 millones de dólares, un 49 por ciento, esto es 40.363 millones, habían sido contraidos durante la administración gubernamental que tuve lugar entre los años 1989 y 1999; el 51 por ciento restante, es decir 41 473 millones, fue contrado entre los años 1999 y el momento de declararse el default."

With partial information, you can say anything... which is nonsense.

There's a first clue in the document you linked to: "este problema de la deuda, que en realidad es un problema que proviene desde el 24 de marzo 1976 cuando el pais comienza a endeudarse cada vez mas y hacer permanente una bicicleta financiera"

What does the document (you provided) means by "bicicleta financiera" -> it refers to the fact the odious debt was refinancer, changed, etc.
For example, we can mention the "Plan Brady" through which creditors like Bank of America, Union of Swiss Banks, etc. accepted a haircut to receive bonds they sold anonymously almost immediately and were used to buy public companies that got privatized (check http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/suplementos/cash/17-4160-2010-01-24.html )

You should also mention Olmedos & the Ballesteros sentence (july 13 2000) -> http://www.taringa.net/posts/economia-negocios/4941621/Fallo-Judicial-sobre-la-Deuda-Externa-Argentina.html

 

[French jurist]

You may not know this, but Menem was actually a democratically elected president.

I didn't know Menem was a democratically elected president, thank you (thought he was a tango dancer with silly facial hair... huh, maybe I shouldn't say that )

 

[Bajo_cero2]

The big debt was created by Videla, not since 1983. 4 billion was when Perón died.

Bicicleta financiera means something that happend when Martínez de Hoz was economy minister (Videla). They put the usd ridicoulous cheap to make people happy while they were doing a genocide. They didn t have them (like nowadays), do they took loans.
Then, there were high interest rates at banks, so, bicicleta financiera means to take as a prívate, a loan abroad, to change into pesos and to put the money a plazo fijo were they paid more than what you were paying for the loan.

Videla and Menem did the same economy program: cheap usd, to open imports, to destroy local industry. Also Menem sold the públic companies.

So they created an useless debt plus they destroyed the income source of the State for paying it.

Venezuela used those debt to develope the oil industry, Brazil the shoe industry, i don t remember what Chile did.

By the way Don Alberto, where are you from?

 

[Don Alberto]

There's a first clue in the document you linked to: "este problema de la deuda, que en realidad es un problema que proviene desde el 24 de marzo 1976 cuando el pais comienza a endeudarse cada vez mas y hacer permanente una bicicleta financiera"

Nice myth. Too bad it doesn't fit the real numbers.

Argentina's public debt stock, 1990-2001 (million US dollars)

...... Bonds ... Total
1976: .......... 8,000 app
1983: ......... 40,000 app The number is disputed, it may have been as much as max. 45 billion
1990: 8,406 .. 57,582
1991: 7,378 .. 58,841
1992: 11,292 .. 58,745
1993: 41,926 .. 63,746
1994: 47,421 .. 72,200
1995: 58,341 .. 87,772
1996: 68,841 .. 97,105
1998: 78,212 . 112,358
1999: 85,804 . 121,877
2000: 93,079 . 128,018
2001: 97,315 . 144,453

Cibils and Vuolo: "What can we learn from Argentina's Recent Debt Crisis and Restruc[t]uring"
http://digitalcommon...12&context=sjsj (p. 760)

When the dictaturship ended, the sovereign debt was app US$ 40 billion. At the end of 2001 it was US$ 144,4 billion.

One must admire the dictaturship, which can increase the debt so much 18 years after it was substituted by a democratic government.

 

[French jurist]

Nice myth. Too bad it doesn't fit the real numbers.

Argentina's public debt stock, 1990-2001 (million US dollars)

...... Bonds ... Total
1976: .......... 8,000 app
1983: ......... 40,000 app The number is disputed, it may have been as much as max. 45 billion
1990: 8,406 .. 57,582
1991: 7,378 .. 58,841
1992: 11,292 .. 58,745
1993: 41,926 .. 63,746
1994: 47,421 .. 72,200
1995: 58,341 .. 87,772
1996: 68,841 .. 97,105
1998: 78,212 . 112,358
1999: 85,804 . 121,877
2000: 93,079 . 128,018
2001: 97,315 . 144,453

Cibils and Vuolo: "What can we learn from Argentina's Recent Debt Crisis and Restruc[t]uring"
http://digitalcommon...12&context=sjsj (p. 760)

When the dictaturship ended, the sovereign debt was app US$ 40 billion. At the end of 2001 it was US$ 144,4 billion.

One must admire the dictaturship, which can increase the debt so much 18 years after it was substituted by a democratic government.

If you consider as a nice myth the documents you use to prove you are right, then I don't know what to answer (??)