Lets be positive people

[michaelk]

Mamminger - I'm not sorry your experience here has been negative. I know it’s taboo to ask on this forum but why the hell are you staying in a city where you hate most of the people? Is it there problem is or is it yours? Did someone force you to come here and what’s forcing you to stay? I’m sorry I know people come on here to let off steam. But that doesn’t cut it when someone is clearly blaming the world for their own problems. There’s letting off steam and there’s just being overwhelming nasty and negative about an entire city in which you’ve CHOSEN to live. Unless someone forced you to take the plane here.
Nothing excuses you writing off the people around you the “dirtiest” group you’ve come across – I don’t care if you’re primarily here for a woman or man - frankly that just sounds racist.

You’re right, you are lucky to know a few nice people – hope you don’t spend your time to them bitching about sh*tty their fellow countyman are.
Sorry people please go back to being positive.

Michael

 

[sergio]

"Putting a relative in a nursing home is regarded as almost criminal by Argentines, so other arrangements are made."

Sara, Don't tell this to the residents of BABS retirement community in Villa Devoto. They are very happy to be in such a fine retirement community, receiving attentive and compassionate care by qualified doctors, nurses and staff. BABS is much respected by the Anglo-Argentine community, so much so that Princess Diana visited the home when she came to Argentina. No one there considers it a crime that they are residents of BABS. In fact, if many elderly Argentines could get care like that they would be very happy indeed to take advantage! Unfortunately Argentina does not have the economy or the infrastructure to support the quality retirement care that the US has. Sadly the city of BA is very poorly set up for the elderly or the handicapped. Ask anyone in a wheel chair. You are so wrong!

 

[SaraSara]

You are right about people in wheelchairs, but wrong about the rest.

In the first place, I was referring about how putting people in nursing homes is REGARDED by Argentines. It is considered shameful, and families will do it only as the very last resort.

Second, I do know about that nursing home in Devoto - it is good, as you say, and there are equally good Swiss and Jewish retirement homes.

But no matter how good institutional care is, most old people prefer to remain in their own homes, with their own furniture, in their own neighborhoods. Even if they are not visited by Princess Diana.

As to cost, those institutions may be expensive, but keeping aged relatives in their own homes is even more expensive, and far more demanding. It means finding round the clock caretakers and supervising them. Still, families go to great lengths to avoid storing their relatives in geriatricos.

Younger people choose to believe the old are eager to move to nursing homes, and are happy there. The self-delusion is understandable, as this arrangement gets them out of sight and frees the family of all responsibility beyond writing a check once a month.

Truth is, old people do not move to geriatricos willingly, not even to the excellent Swiss and Jewish ones. They move because they are not offered a choice, often believing it is just a "temporary arrangement". Once there, they get visitors once a week for the first few months, and then every three months or so.

A sad exchange for staying in their own homes or even moving in with a relative's family, no matter how crowded the home.

 

[ssr]

Nothing excuses you writing off the people around you the “dirtiest” group you’ve come across – I don’t care if you’re primarily here for a woman or man - frankly that just sounds racist.

While I agree that Mamminger went way too far in his/her rant above, I have a hard time seeing how it's "racist." I've read a few accusations of "racism" against Argentines here at BAExpats.org and it leads me to wonder exactly what "race" people are talking about. Most Argentines are folks who could have just as easily ended up American or Canadian or Brazilian or whatever had their great-grandparents just hopped on a different boat leaving Europe. It's the whitest country in the Americas and that's no accident. Most Argentines want, often desperately and embarrassingly, to be viewed as "European." Buenos Aires looks like a dingy copy of Paris for a reason; these are people who really want the world to know how white (er, I mean "European") they are.

So, while I don't think Mamminger is being racist, I do think s/he is being culture-ist (is there a word for that?) and, again, while s/he went too far, it's difficult to disagree that Argentina has some wildly self-destructive aspects to its culture.

Anyway, back to the thread topic: being positive is nice. Laboring to convince yourself that you're happy when you're anything but, on the other hand, is sort of stupid. If you're living in Argentina by choice but really can't stand the place, it's probably best to just acknowledge that things haven't worked out and move on. Willing yourself to "be positive" in a place that makes you absolutely miserable is a waste of time and energy. Just get the hell out. There's lots more world out there. I think most people don't find it nearly as difficult to "be positive" when they're in a place that they actually like.

 

[HowardinBA]

Laureltp - it's interesting - I actually had the reverse experience of you. My first year here, I don't think I have ever been more happy in my life. The next year was much harder. And now going on my third year, I think I see it with pretty clear eyes. There are many wonderful things about Argentina and in order to survive here, you have to focus on those. And if/when the moment comes that the negatives outweigh the positives, it's probably time to leave.

I know for me it's not culture shock (I actually don't think I ever really experienced it). It's trying to figure out if/how I will ever be able to fully integrate into the society here and if I will be able to find and achieve the things that matter to me. I don't hate Argentina - if I did, I would be on the next plane out - but it has its challenges.

As far as reasons to live here - there are many and everyone has different ones. But the experience of living outside your home country is invaluable and teaches you many things - good and bad. That is probably the most important reason I am here. Other reasons in no particular order:
I also love that a friend will always take you to/from the airport.
I love that waiters don't blink at you spending 3 hours at a table to chat with your friend and only buy one cup of coffee.
I love that when people in the neighborhood get to know you, they look out for you.
I love that in 30 minutes from downtown, you can be in the country and have access to horses and land.
I love that for 1.25 pesos, you can go anywhere in the city on a bus.
I love that old men tip their hats and call me beautiful on the street.
I love walking on the streets in Belgrano Chico and looking at the beautiful houses.
I love that I have met expats from all over the world and learned so many things from them.
I love spending an afternoon with people, at an asado and drinking great wine and talking and talking and talking.

So there are some of my positives....

Hi CG.I have to say I fully agree with your love list.I am living outside the city and I think the peoople here are more than welcomimng.I love my life here in BA and don,t see that changing at all-we need more positive threads about this lovely country....regards Howard

 

[nikad]

I am going to be 50 August 6th (just in case anyone wants to buy me a drink)!

Yes...yes...I know...my avatar photo looks great BUT you have to remember that being gay I do tend to keep myself in shape!

u gotta be kidding me!!! I always thought you were at most 34!! Now if you care to pass along those beauty-how-to-stay-in-shape-tips just PM me

 

[mcaffa]

I guess what I am trying to say, is if you are having a hard time, hang in there. I think that you might find that after a while of adjusting all these things we complain about will start to seem a lot less important.

How long should I hang in there? I've been here for almost 6 years and things seem to get harder and harder as each day goes by.

Just like SaraSara, I am here for family reasons. If it weren't for this, I would be on a plane faster than you can say ''don't cry for me Argentina.''

For me, the problem is not culture shock, as I'm half Uruguayan - it is frustration and exhaustion with daily Argentine life. Each day is a battle here. I have also noticed that I've become a more cynical and bitter person during my time here.

Hopefully I'll be out by next year - I pray for this every single day.

 

[Katser]

Just want to say for anyone reading this that is thinking of coming over.

Yes some people have culture shock but people aren't lying about how difficult life is here. If you blame all the complaints on culture shock that is just lying to yourself.

Inflation is bad. The streets are broken. There is a lot of dog shit, etc.

These facts are not culture shock, they are facts.

In particular BKK to BA's post is helpful. Yes Argentina is great but there might be better places and make sure you know all the facts before you come here.

I agree OP with saying things seem less important. That in it's self implies that there are problems that people aren't making up in their heads. Why settle for somewhere if you have no ties there?

 

[michaelk]

Ssr - call it racial discrimination if you want (the term's come to cover nationality and ethnicity, it's not just about skin colour). Semantics aside, calling Argnetines ruthless and dirty, etc. isn't going a bit far - it's out of order. And I don't have any sympathy with someone living here and saying that. I don't think this forum should be a place where people can rave about other nationalities being "dirty". OK, I'm out of here now.