Let's Talk About M...

[ben]

This guy sounds like lucas, cabrera, and bajo all rolled into one. (BTW - what happened to Matias?)

That Bullrich was in over her head became fairly apparent in the first months (weeks?) of this administration, with the prison break by the Triple Crimen people.

Ms. Bullrich sounded as coherent and looked as much in control as Anibal Fernandez. Real amateur hour.

But from there to infer that the national government - Macri, no less! - had nothing better to do with their time than to find and murder a Mapuche sympathizer in Chubut (or even to cover up the same), sounds like a good ol' K conspiracy theory. Designed to be believed by stupid people.

 

[Huey Long]

And you sound like a very nice guy indeed, ben, I will make sure to recommend your services to everyone I can. Thanks!

PS. Don't let the fact that the caratula has been determined to be desaparicion forzada while government officials claimed Santiago wasn't even there bother you, nothing covered up here, nothing covered up there.

 

[ben]

I freely admit to not knowing much details of the case, aside from skimming media reports.

But that Macri(!) is interested in disappearing some guy from Chubut, who was helping people block a road, sounds fantastic to me. Absurd, actually. Full stop.

If you see it differently, let's agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

[Huey Long]

I freely admit to not knowing much details of the case, aside from skimming media reports.

Nor having read my posts ;-) That's all right but so far I have said the following so I assume you can see now we don't disagree in that particular point:

Her chief of staff Pablo Noceti gave the orders to carry on the operation which lead to Santiago's murder (BTW nobody in his right mind says the Government order the murder per se, they just wanted to teach a lesson to the mapuches but once you unleash these beasts you can't control them) and she tried to cover it up as much as she could.

It's clear that the government didn't plan to kill Santiago Maldonado BUT they order the illegal operation (something nobody can deny) that resulted in his death so they are responsible.

I'm 100% sure Noceti is responsible of ordering the ILLEGAL operation that lead to Maldonado's murder and most probably he acted on guideliens given to him by or agreed with her boss (Patricia Bullrich who in turn received instruction to "fix the problem" from Macri, this doesn't pin the blame on Macri until proven the opposite though, asking for something to be fixed isn't the same as giving the green light to run an illegal operation as Noceti did). I for one have no reason to believe that neither of them three PLANNED this outcome, on the contrary I would bet the situation got our of their hands but that doesn't take away responsibility from Noceti who was in situ (something they also lied about, "he was passing by and went to shake hands with the gendarmes" said P Bullrich, come on, that's ludicrous, and has been proven with pictures taken that day that he was there twice during the day including at the time of the incident). Bullrich and Macri are most probably safe from legal repercusions regarding the kidnap and death, her intervention would be very hard to prove and personally I don't think a president can deal with every single detail like this so I wouldn't blame el gato for the operation going tits up (although I do blame him - politically I mean - for giving carte blanche and instilling an impunity feeling among the forces). Having said that the cover up is another beast, Bullrich is on it up to her neck having lied in congress and derailed the investigation at every turn while she could (Policia Federal screwed her and Gendarmeria due to internal rifts disclosing information that made it impossible for her to continue lying openly). I have absolutely no proof Macri is involved in the cover up and I haven't heard anything at all in that regard, although him keeping her as a Minister isn't a good sign (politically speaking).

 

[ben]

I am not conversant enough (or at all, basically) with the facts of the case to acknowledge or rebut your factual points. The name Nocetti barely registers by me.

I will refrain from naming another K sympathizer on this board, who 9 out of 10 times that he asserts facts and I go check, it turns out to be hot air - utter BS. Possibly I am guilty of having become jaded. If you and your facts are any different, then I apologize for conflating the two.

As I wrote above, and wrote before at the time of the Triple Crimen prison break, Madame Bullrich seems to be out of her league. And I do agree that Macri's keeping her is perplexing. (Does he owe her a Cabinet post for some reason?) I further agree that the point regarding Macri is political/moral rather than legal (although you'd never know it based on what large swaths of the K base and media are arguing). If indeed the Gendarmeria is involved in a coverup and Macri does not get involved, that speaks badly about him politically and/or morally.

I would need to know more, though, before agreeing to his bearing the blame "for giving carte blanche and instilling an impunity feeling among the forces". To the extent that such a culture of impunity exists, it very likely was there before he ever showed up. And you need to choose your battles. This country is simply too deeply in the toilet, on too many fronts, for inaction on a given front (absent a crisis - like, say, this one) to be incomprehensible - he has more than enough on his plate. Unless it can be demonstrated that Gendarmeria has a systemic problem of extralegal violence/coverups, it's a bit early to fault Macri for not overhauling the whole thing as he seems to have done with Policia Federal.