Los paises mas corruptos del mundo

ghost said:
"Well documented" .....would you care to share those documents that prove the "illegallity" of those nasty deeds and who the "groups" were and where exactly were these "civilians". I'm sure they [CIA] are capable of doing these evil things, I have no doubt about their skills. However I have serious doubts about your access to said real documents. Please post them, I love reading CIA docs.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Orwellian to post links to any such documents. The most you'll get is a wikipedia link, or a link to a whacky conspiracy theorist's website.

He often amuses himself posting opinions as "well known" facts. The cast of villains has become quite predictable, with Big Satan (the US) in first place. :rolleyes:<sigh>
 
SaraSara said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for Orwellian to post links to any such documents. The most you'll get is a wikipedia link, or a link to a whacky conspiracy theorist's website.


Have you ever answered just one question proving some of your outlandish theories Sara? To me you sound like the wackiest conspiracy theorist there is like others here who believe that wacky story of the twin towers and building 7 that mysteriously vanished into dust even though it was never even touched by a plane. :rolleyes:

http://www.wtc7.net/
 
ghost said:
"Well documented" .....would you care to share those documents that prove the "illegallity" of those nasty deeds and who the "groups" were and where exactly were these "civilians". I'm sure they [CIA] are capable of doing these evil things, I have no doubt about their skills. However I have serious doubts about your access to said real documents. Please post them, I love reading CIA docs.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word 'documented'.

Here's an excerpt from an American nun who was raped and tortured in Guatemala by CIA trained paramilitaries:

When the men returned, they had a video camera and a still camera. The policeman put a machete into my hands. Thinking it would be used against me, and at that point in my torture wanting to die, I did not resist. But the policeman put his hands onto the handle, on top of mine, and forced me to stab the woman again and again...

The policeman asked me if I was now ready to talk, and one of the other torturers...mentioned that they had just filmed...me stabbing the woman. If I refused to cooperate, their boss, Alejandro, would...turn the videotapes and the photographs over to the press.... This was the first I had heard of Alejandro, the torturers' boss....

The policeman raped me again. Then I was lowered into a pit full of bodies— bodies of children, men, and women, some decapitated, all caked with blood. A few were still alive. I could hear them moaning. Someone was weeping. I didn’t know if it was me or somebody else. A stench of decay rose from the pit. Rats swarmed over the bodies and were dropped onto me as I hung suspended over the pit by the wrists. I passed out and when I came to I was lying on the ground beside the pit, rats all over me.

The nightmare I lived was nothing out of the ordinary. In 1989, under Guatemala’s first civilian president in years, nearly two hundred people were abducted. Unlike me, they were "disappeared, gone forever". The only uncommon element of my ordeal was that I survived, probably because I was a U.S. citizen, and phone calls poured into Congress when I was reported missing. As a U.S. citizen, I had another advantage: I could, in relative safety, reveal afterwards the details of what happened to me in those twenty-four hours. One of those details: an American was in charge of my torturers.

I remember the moment he removed my blindfold. I asked him, "Are you an American?" In poor Spanish and with a heavy American accent, he answered me with a question: "Why do you want to know?" Moments before, after the torturers had blindfolded me again and were getting ready to rape me again, they had called out in Spanish: "Hey, Alejandro, come and have some fun!" And a voice had responded "Shit!" in perfect American English with no trace of an accent. It was the voice of the tall, fair-skinned man beside me. After swearing, he’d switched to a halting Spanish. "Idiots!" he said. "She’s a North American nun." He added that my disappearance had been made public, and he ran them out of the room.

....He kept telling me he was sorry. The torturers had made a mistake. We came to a parking garage, where he put me into a gray Suzuki jeep and told me he was taking me to a friend of his at the U.S. embassy who would help me leave the country. For the duration of the trip, I spoke to him in English, which he understood perfectly. He said he was concerned about the people of Guatemala and consequently was working to liberate them from Communism. Alejandro told me to forgive my torturers because they had confused me with Veronica Ortiz Hernandez. It was an honest mistake.

I asked him how they could have mistaken me for a woman who did not resemble me in any way. And why were the threatening letters I had received addressed to Madre Dianna and not to Veronica Ortiz Hernandez? He avoided my questions and insinuated that I was to blame for my torture because I had not heeded the threats that were sent to me.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianna_Ortiz
 
orwellian said:
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word 'documented'.

Here's an excerpt from an American nun who was raped and tortured in Guatemala by CIA trained paramilitaries:

Another opinion stated as fact. Please document that the CIA trained those Guatemala paramilitaries.
 
SaraSara said:
Another opinion stated as fact. Please document that the CIA trained those Guatemala paramilitaries.

If you had taken time to read what I just posted you would have had your answer already.

One of those details: an American was in charge of my torturers.

I remember the moment he removed my blindfold. I asked him, "Are you an American?" In poor Spanish and with a heavy American accent, he answered me with a question: "Why do you want to know?" Moments before, after the torturers had blindfolded me again and were getting ready to rape me again, they had called out in Spanish: "Hey, Alejandro, come and have some fun!" And a voice had responded "Shit!" in perfect American English with no trace of an accent. It was the voice of the tall, fair-skinned man beside me. After swearing, he’d switched to a halting Spanish. "Idiots!" he said. "She’s a North American nun." He added that my disappearance had been made public, and he ran them out of the room.

....He kept telling me he was sorry. The torturers had made a mistake. We came to a parking garage, where he put me into a gray Suzuki jeep and told me he was taking me to a friend of his at the U.S. embassy who would help me leave the country. For the duration of the trip, I spoke to him in English, which he understood perfectly. He said he was concerned about the people of Guatemala and consequently was working to liberate them from Communism.
 
SaraSara said:
How do you now they were CIA agents and not American mercenaries?

There are one or two people who need professional help, but in this case I would say he is definitely a CIA agent, perhaps worst. We'll wait for his reply, probably in code.
 
SaraSara said:
How do you now they were CIA agents and not American mercenaries?

Fist of all I doubt there were any American mercenaries in Guatemala at that time. Also we know that the CIA trained these paramilitaries. And if this witness claims he was giving orders (mercenaries follow orders), we can safely assume he was working directly or indirectly for the CIA.
Seriously SaraSara, you are not a child and you're not retarded. Why should I have to point this out to you? Are you deliberately playing stupid or what?
 
cabrera said:
Have you ever answered just one question proving some of your outlandish theories Sara?
You got it wrong - I don't post theories but opinions, like the vast majority of members of this board do. That includes you, too.

In my view, 99% of the debate posts in this forum are just personal opinions - people just saying whatever they think. They don’t have valid proof of anything, just use wikipedia quotes to support their opinions.

No one provides the three authoritative, independent-source corroborations all good reporters must furnish before being allowed to publish investigative pieces. So, these posts resemble opinion pieces, quite a different journalistic animal.

Well, Cabrera, that's this “cheta's” opinion. Please feel free to ignore my posts if they bother you...:D [/QUOTE]
 
orwellian said:
Fist of all I doubt there were any American mercenaries in Guatemala at that time. Also we know that the CIA trained these paramilitaries. And if this witness claims he was giving orders (mercenaries follow orders), we can safely assume he was working directly or indirectly for the CIA.

Again, a bunch of opinions stated as facts. "I doubt", "we know", "we can safely assume".....

It's interesting to hear other people's opinions, but they should be presented as such and not posted as the Gospel. That, orwellian, is my point.
 
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