Many Dead In Paris Tonight

[wineguy999]

Graham E Fuller's take:

http://grahamefuller.com/isis-the-hour-has-struck/

 

[camberiu]

Syria is the battlefield for the proxy war being fought between Iran and Saudi Arabia. What he proposes will never happen. To destroy Isis is to give Iran and Hezbollah a thunderous victory and to Saudi Arabia a disastrous defeat. Saudi Arabia would never allow it, nor would Israel or Turkey.

And even if that could be done, Isis is not the problem, it is just the symptom. The problem is the ethnic cleansing of Sunnis after the fall of Saddam and the proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Good luck fixing that.

 

[nlaruccia]

I wonder if from now on, the Europeans will stop criticizing the USA for their school shootings, etc.
This is more than all the shootings that happened there in decades.The solution?Implement the CCW as in the USA!!!

One has nothing to do with the other. A terrible tragedy occurs and you criticize the victims? That's essentially like Europe saying after 9/11 that hopefully North Americans will have learned to keep their nose out of other countries' affairs.

 

[Sockhopper]

To answer that question is to kill the golden goose of most Western military contractors, French included. To answer that question is to admit that the 1990 Gulf war, which the French gladly joined, and every military action in the region since then has been nothing but a massive racket.

Saudi Arabia has been funding Jihadists since the 1970s. ISIS is funded by Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is aggressively funding the build up of Wahhabist mosques worldwide. Saudi Arabia is one of the largest consumers of Western military hardware in the world. This summer, the French government closed an entire public beach so that the visiting Saudi king could enjoy it in private. The 1990 Gulf war was fought primarily to protect the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. All of this is public knowledge. We simply chose to ignore it. Because to admit it is to admit that our leaders are bought and paid for. it is to admit that we are idiots who fall behind any stupid war as long as someone claims that it is in the name of "freedom", when the war is in reality to protect the interest of a theocratic and absolutist monarchy. So we don't do it. 

Camberiu, that's not what happened re the French beach this past spring. I live a short drive from it. We got news that a Saudi prince would be arriving in 2 weeks with 1,000 guests -yes, 1,000 - to spend 2 or 3 weeks living in his villa. Then, a local out walking discovered to his shock that in preparation for this holiday, that prince had had constructed in advance for himself 2 things - an elevator that went down from his house to the PUBLIC beach AND a tall wall (concrete if I recall) that completely cut off all physical access to this beach and all view of it from land unless you were part of his household!!!

The elevator meant that no local would ever see who was even using the PUBLIC beach. Of course, locals revolted: you can't do this in France. The Riviera isn't some giant tourist resort. It's a place of local life first. What's public is protected. While the prince was en route to France, the government concerned ordered that both illegal structures be knocked down.

The prince and his entourage arrived. Four days later, the prince changed his mind about being here. He and his entourage packed up and left for home. Problem solved.

 

[ben]

Syria is the battlefield for the proxy war being fought between Iran and Saudi Arabia. What he proposes will never happen. To destroy Isis is to give Iran and Hezbollah a thunderous victory and to Saudi Arabia a disastrous defeat. Saudi Arabia would never allow it, nor would Israel or Turkey.

Are you saying that Israel would take steps do 'disallow' the destruction of ISIS? What such steps do you suppose would it take?
Certainly Israel would prefer that it's neighbors fight each other rather than attack Israel, but to imply that it would wade itself into those waters sounds pretty crazy to me.

And the world shall become one big Gaza/West Bank. Welcome to life under perpetual conflict.

Not sure what you mean. This is the 'necessary step' that wineguy referred to:

This will not stop until the Muslims themselves, along with the states of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, et al decide that enough is enough. Yes, I know that sounds simplistic, for such a quagmire, but it's a necessary step.

Are you arguing that when 'the Muslims themselves... decide that enough is enough' the result is that of Gaza/West Bank?

I would argue the reverse, that precisely in Gaza and the West Bank, wineguy is right: in order to end the perpetual conflict, the locals have to take things in their own hands, and stop following the murderous ideology foisted on them from infancy on, on every level, from school to culture to everything - in which attacking Israelis (actually, Jews; in their media they don't suffer from any problems of political correctness) is glorified, suicide is portrayed as martyrdom, murder is 'resistance', etc.

As Golda Meir said, 'peace will not come until the Arabs love their children more than they hate us'. As we are seeing, this applies to much of the Middle East in general, not only to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

 

[camberiu]

"If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up. Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents? In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause. From this war, a million bin Ladens will bloom."
-The Onion, March 26 2003


This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t

 

[sleslie23]

I have ticket to Paris, and i will go.

Me too. Can't wait.

 

[ben]

And the real culprit behind the Paris attacks has been identified. It is... Israel and the Mossad.

So says an op-ed in the Palestinian newspaper of record. Not Hamas by the way, but rather the 'moderate' Fatah publishes this.

They put in some comics as well, to bring the point home without troubling anyone to read.

Why did Israel do this? To show their displeasure with the European Union beginning to label products coming from disputed areas as not 'Made in Israel'.

It turns out that the US and Israel were also responsible for downing the Russian plane, according to the same Palestinian media. And yeah, the Charlie Hebdo attacks too.

This is why peace is well nigh impossible. The Palestinian leadership must, at any cost, continue the struggle - in the absence of which their own poor excuse for a totalitarian, inefficient, massively corrupt government would be in big trouble. To this end, there is a constant cycle of incitement, propped up by any and all imaginable propaganda - including mind-boggling lunacy such as above - being fed daily and hourly, via media, music etc, to a populace that buys it hook line and sinker. When, as inevitably happens, their people start actually attacking - witness the weeks-long spate of murderous knife attacks to which the world yawns - then it's a win-win situation. If the killer succeeds, great - he's resisted the Israeli terrorists. If he gets killed (in clear self-defence), then he's a martyr, an innocent martyr to boot, and proof of how evil the Israelis are. Rinse and repeat.

When your own casualties are regarded as PR victories, you literally can't lose.