More Americans Sever U.S. Ties as IRS Gets Tougher

No, I don’t agree with you that enforcement of the existing law is not really, really important; our daily lives in Argentina should be a testament to that. No, I didn’t ask about infrastructure, nor about the direction of the country.
I don’t think we are on the same political page, nor have the same beliefs or even point of departure. No need to discuss anymore because we will ruin our nascent chances at friendship! : ) It’s not that I am afraid or have no response; I have this same revolving conversation over and over with my Dad and we have made little headway in over a decade.
 
redrum said:
why shouldn't the IRS get tougher? wow. you'll pardon me as i cough cough. i hardly think that a tougher IRS is a good thing. i do not believe that giving the govt. more power to reach into the daily lives of citizens is a good thing.

oh and there's one other thing. technically, the income tax is illegal according to the constitution. that's right - it's illegal. nowhere in the constitution does is say that the federal govt. has a right to tax the wages which means that citizens should not have to pay it.

how would we pay for our infrastructure you ask? roads? education? the same we always have, through state taxes. about .43 cents of every income tax dollar is spent on the military. how much is spent on education? about .03 cents. more money is spent on paying interest on existing debts than on education.

does this sound like a country that's headed in the right direction to you?

our country was built and created before the income tax ever existed. it was instituted in 1913 along with the Federal Reserve Act, you guessed it, the same act that formed the Fed. and we all know what a crooked central that is.

now that the obamacare has passed, they are supposedly planning on hiring another 16,000 IRS agents to police small business and individuals to make sure you are purchasing the insurance.

again, big govt., more IRS, more taxes, more budget deficits - these are all bad things. very bad things.

The IRS will not be hiring 16,000 people to run around and enforce and unenforceable mandate. That is pure Republican spin.

"But wait, you said 'unenforceable'?" According to page 131 of H.R. 3590:

‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

So, um, you'll be fined, but you won't be subject to criminal prosecution or penalty. Pretty much throws out the need for the 16,000 new IRS employees, doesn't it? I'm guessing that they didn't report this on FOX News...

The only thing I would dispute about states having to pay for everything on their own is that not all states are equal. (Egads! SOCIALISM!) Border states, like Texas and Arizona, would be unfairly forced to pay for their border security without federal tax dollars, when clearly border security is important for all states. Furthermore, highways would likely be substandard in many states that don't have the public funds to pay for them. For example, Montana has less than a million people, and it also has a pretty extensive network of highways like most other states. Needless to say, it's doubtful that the million people in Montana would be able to pay the bill for the maintenance and construction of all highways. MT just can't collect that much in tax dollars.

You see this with education, not just between states, but also between different school districts within a state. The federal government provides very little funding for public primary and secondary schools. In my state (MO), schools are funded by local property tax dollars and state tax dollars. Due to the way schools get their funding, the quality of education differs across the board. In MO, a school in an affluent suburb of St. Louis might pay around $10,000 USD per student. However, in some of the rural, poor areas, it's normal to see some schools spend around $5,000-$8,000. Affluent communities clearly have more high-dollar homes to tax than rural, poor ones, and the children who live in the more affluent communities have a better quality of education, more access to opportunities, etc. Surprise, surprise. Thus, I'm afraid if you took away federal tax dollars for highways and roads, et al., similar quality issues observed between schools within states and among states would be observed.
 
bradlyhale said:
So, um, you'll be fined, but you won't be subject to criminal prosecution or penalty.

oh then i feel much better now. the govt. now has the right to tell me, a private person, that i need to purchase a product from a private corporation that i may or may not want.

and if i don't do it, they will simply reach into my bank account and take the money. hmm does that sound like govt. tyranny to you? what happened to my freedom to choose? not to mention that it is illegal according to the constitution.

the fed govt. cannot dictate to private citizens nor to states that they must obey a federal mandate. that is strictly against state sovereignty. let's not forget that the states form the union, not the other way around. if the states get together, they can dissolve the fed govt.

and please stop with the false left vs right, dem vs republican paradigm. we all know by now that at the top there is absolutely no difference between a democrat and a republican.

why? because they all work for the same team. there is no difference between a bush or an obama. they are all bought and paid for before they even set foot in the oval office.

the building of the american empire agenda has not slowed down one bit. even now we are preparing for war with iran, using the same propaganda, lies and deceit that were given for the invasion of iraq.

we spend over 1 trillion/yr on our foreign policy. we have over 800 installations in at least 135 countries. banks(goldman et al), mega corporations, mega rich etc run our country, not the president and certainly not the american ppl.

we are lambs to the slaughter. and it is only going to get worse as the avg. standard of living is destroyed and the middle class wiped out - all by design.
 
emilyr said:
No, I don’t agree with you that enforcement of the existing law is not really, really important; our daily lives in Argentina should be a testament to that. No, I didn’t ask about infrastructure, nor about the direction of the country.
I don’t think we are on the same political page, nor have the same beliefs or even point of departure. No need to discuss anymore because we will ruin our nascent chances at friendship! : ) It’s not that I am afraid or have no response; I have this same revolving conversation over and over with my Dad and we have made little headway in over a decade.

well then i guess we can agree to disagree.

big govt. is a bad thing. govt. control of 1/6 of the economy, and growing, is a bad thing. higher taxes is a bad thing. more power to the IRS is a bad thing. tighter banking restrictions in the name of fighting phony terrorism is an outright LIE and a bad thing. give me a break.
 
Alex Jones? Is that you?

Yes, the corporations and bankers control us all. The elitist bankers are going to unleash a super virus that wipes out most of humanity, and then chip the ones who remain. Those who remain will be forced into slavery by the bankers, and those who refuse will be sent to the FEMA death camps.

Right.

I'm going to start digging my underground shelter and canning green beans.
 
bradlyhale said:
Alex Jones? Is that you?

Yes, the corporations and bankers control us all. The elitist bankers are going to unleash a super virus that wipes out most of humanity, and then chip the ones who remain. Those who remain will be forced into slavery by the bankers, and those who refuse will be sent to the FEMA death camps.

Right.

I'm going to start digging my underground shelter and canning green beans.

you seem to know much more about the subject than i do.....hmm

what i find funny is that anything you don't agree with you simply label as being conspiracy theory when most of the evidence is right in your face.

oh and i love how you completely ignore the points in my post. instead of addressing the issues, you choose to demonize the speaker.

real adult of you. i guess that's the easiest thing for you to do.
 
redrum said:
you seem to know much more about the subject than i do.....hmm

what i find funny is that anything you don't agree with you simply label as being conspiracy theory when most of the evidence is right in your face.

oh and i love how you completely ignore the points in my post. instead of addressing the issues, you choose to demonize the speaker.

real adult of you. i guess that's the easiest thing for you to do.

See, this is the problem with you and people of your ilk. You are so disconnected from reality. Just read your posts. You say that I labeled Alex Jones and his beliefs "conspiracy theories," when I never explicitly stated anything of a sort. You say that I *gasp* demonized you. Either you're imagining that too, or you have no idea what demonizing really is. You say that the government is going to reach into your bank account and take your money. Again, completely unfounded. The bill clearly states that there will be "no criminal prosecution" for anyone who fails to pay the fine. If they can't take you to court, they can't arbitrarily just start taking money out of your bank account. So, you can keep imagining what it says, but again, your imagination seems to defy reality.

It's really hard to debate issues with people that misconstrue the evidence and make ridiculous conclusions based on that misconstrued evidence. It's even harder to debate someone when she/he just makes things up out of thin air. Lastly, I think your apathy plays right into the hands of the corporate fat cats. You yourself say that we are "lambs to the slaughter." With that defeatist attitude, we sure are.
 
bradlyhale said:
See, this is the problem with you and people of your ilk. You are so disconnected from reality. You create facts out of thin air, and you imagine things that aren't really happening. Just read your posts. You say that I labeled Alex Jones and his beliefs conspiracy theories, when I never explicitly stated anything of a sort. You say that I *gasp* demonized you. Either you're imagining that too, or you have no idea what demonizing really is. You say that the government is going to reach into your bank account and take your money. Again, completely unfounded.

It's really hard to debate issues with people that misconstrue the evidence and make ridiculous conclusions based on that misconstrued evidence. Furthermore, I think your apathy plays right into the hands of the corporate fat cats. You yourself say that we are "lambs to the slaughter." With that defeatist attitude, we sure are.

Bradley you are like the Band that plays happy music as the titanic sinks . What more evidence do you require that shows that Obama Bush are one and the same with Obama being more dangerous by far than his predecessor.

The USA is over by design but Europe will go first . Soon you will be biting your words
 
Cabrera: I never even commented on Bush or Obama, so how can you assume anything about my position? The two are pretty much the same on foreign policy. I honestly can't think of any major foreign policy issue where the two differ, at least based on their actions.
 
bradlyhale said:
See, this is the problem with you and people of your ilk. You are so disconnected from reality. Just read your posts.

You're doing it again. Stop making this about me personally. You continue to label me and put me into a group of people of which you obviously have a biased opinion. You do not know me and I do not know you. Either debate the issues or simply don't reply at all. don't start a post with "this is the problem with you and people of your ilk." i am not attacking you personally because it does not serve to further the debate. when you reply with an obnoxious sarcastic post, you lose credibility and respect during the debate process.

bradlyhale said:
You say that I labeled Alex Jones and his beliefs "conspiracy theories," when I never explicitly stated anything of a sort. You say that I *gasp* demonized you. Either you're imagining that too, or you have no idea what demonizing really is.

I suggest you re read your post then. It was purposefully demeaning and condescending.


bradlyhale said:
You say that the government is going to reach into your bank account and take your money. Again, completely unfounded. The bill clearly states that there will be "no criminal prosecution" for anyone who fails to pay the fine. If they can't take you to court, they can't arbitrarily just start taking money out of your bank account. So, you can keep imagining what it says, but again, your imagination seems to defy reality.

Not sure what version of the bill you've been reading. The bill clearly states that there will be a fine if insurance is not purchased.

bradlyhale said:
It's really hard to debate issues with people that misconstrue the evidence and make ridiculous conclusions based on that misconstrued evidence. It's even harder to debate someone when she/he just makes things up out of thin air. Lastly, I think your apathy plays right into the hands of the corporate fat cats.

I could say the same about you. you say it's really hard to debate issues? how could you possibly debate any issues when you choose to ignore them? at least i try to stick to the issues whereas you seem to delight in using ad hominem as well as being smug, arrogant and obnoxious.

bradlyhale said:
You yourself say that we are "lambs to the slaughter." With that defeatist attitude, we sure are

if you read my posts, at least I am attempting to spread the useful information. Which is a lot more than what you're doing.
 
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