My Argentinian wife really dislikes the US. Typical of Argentinians?

[JoeGillis]

Joe, I think the human tendency (whether that human being is American, Argentine, or whoever) is to look to someone else as the source of their problem, or to criticize others as a way of not dealing with their own problems. I also think all countries are hell bent on proving that they are better than the rest, or again maybe it's a way to deflect issues or guilt away from themselves. In Argentina that comes in the form of saying we may not have the money of the States but we are so much warmer, friendlier, family oriented, so as to prove their superiority. In the Us it comes in the form of saying that we are the best, the greatest, to try to convince ourselves or our superioriry and/or to not have to deal with the less savory part of our history, nature and actions. There is the good, the bad and the ugly in all societies. It makes me mad, though, when folks in other societies try to use others' bad and ugly to try to make themselves look better. Nobody denies that there is a horrible problem with gun violence in the States, but when I read Argentines saying what a sick society (about the US) when their is another shooting, I think, they say that and they can't see the sick violence all around them.

Stantucker, I couldn't agree with you more! It's nice to read something by someone who shares my views, thoughts, opinions. Thank you!

 

[elhombresinnombre]

My limited experience tends to be that argentinians dislike the US but are far more complimentary of Australia.

To be fair, us Brits and you Americans have form when it comes to interfering in other countries affairs in general and in Argentine affairs in this context. If you're not familiar with the British invasions of Buenos Aires in 1806 and 7 go look them up. In fact, when you type "British Invasion of.." Google rather helpfully offers lots and lots of suggestions which rather proves my point. Then there's the Battle of Vuelta de Obligado which Argentina now celebrates with a public holiday, not to mention other, more recent matters which I won't go into here.

And that's just the Brits: I'm sure you could write your own list for the Americans.

Now, tell me again? What did Australia ever do to upset Argentina?

 

[earlyretirement]

No knock on Argentines but personally I don't think that overall as a society Argentines are outwardly friendly or warm compared to other countries in South America. Until they get to know you they are a bit guarded. But definitely once you make friends they are amazingly friendly. But overall I think Argentines aren't a "warm and fuzzy" people. Most of them have the live for today attitude. There is no genuine long term mutually beneficial relationship type vibe with many. I don't think it's an anti-American thing. I just think it's an Argentine thing.

If you go outside of Argentina in other countries, Argentines don't have the best reputation around South America. Not to say I don't love Argentina because I do. It's just that I don't find the locals as friendly and warm as most other countries in South America.

I've never had any problems with anyone. I just find that while traveling around South America there are really warm and genuine people in other countries compared to Buenos Aires. I guess this goes more for Porteños vs. other smaller cities in Argentina where I think people are much friendlier.

 

[sergio]

Interesting that you bring this topic up. Recently I've felt like we have experienced more anti-US sentiment, or maybe I am just now noticing it more, or more sensitive to it now. Sometimes it's how we're treated in restaurants, and I don't mean the normal bad service- sorry about the stereotype-- but, for example, not being waited on as attentively as Argentines. It's also the comments and stereotypes about Americans. I will agree that we are materialistic, but when I get outside BA and see how people live in the "countries," I see no real difference with the US. Of course, I am sure some with argue that is a very small percentage of Argentine society, but I have also witnessed Argentines (and other Latin Americans) going crazy in duty free shops. And I don't buy the argument that's because those items are so much more expensive normally for them. Those items are not basic necessities by any means; most of them are luxuries. Most people seems to spend as much as they have or can regardless of where they are from. Americans tend to have more disposable income, so they spend more, buy more things. Is some of that excessive and just buying for the sake of buying? Yes. Again, I admit, we are materialistic, but I don't see such a clear difference between us and the rest of the world. I did not live to work- I am retired now- and the vast majority of my friends do/did not. Some Argentine friends told me about some Cubans they met in Miami who wanted to work a couple hours and then go to the beach for the rest of the day, and would complain and joke about Americans working so much??? Is that how we should be? Is that how a serious country works? I do agree, though, that some Americans work too much, some Americans. Also, I don't think of my friends or family as cold or unwelcoming to foreigners. I know you will say that's just you, not most Americans, but that's exactly what I don't like, so much of what I hear seems to be based on stereotypes. I have read any number of comments in Clarin and La Nacion from Argentines who live in the US, speak English well, and who are well integrated that don't buy into many of these stereotypes and are happy there. When we are away from our country, family, dearest friends, and as a result are not completely happy, many times we nit pick, we constantly look for flaws, and we generally do not look for those in ourselves, but others. Even though I am happy here, when I am not doing well personally, haven't sleep well, etc., I find myself more critical of Argentina and the Argentines. I think that may be why I have perceived more anti-American sentiment recently. Some of what I "see" may have not actually be the case, and even if I am perceiving those things accurately, why should they really bother me? That says more about me than the other folks. I am sure Argentines on this site must get tired of what they perceive as anti-Argentine sentiments and stereotypes. I think the general rule in life is that we all look for scapegoats for whatever our own personal level of frustration, unhappiness is. I think that also explains why so many here are so willing to opine negatively about the US, without ever having been there. Is there usually at least a little bit of truth in stereotypes? Of course there is, or they wouldn't exits. So yes, we are materialistic, we do work too much, we are not as warm as Argentines in general and family has lost its importance, but not to the degree so many would have think.

I totally agree. I have often thought that the "countries" (gated communities) around the city are replicas of upper middle class US suburbs: nice or even extravagant free standing homes, clean and safe streets but unlike the US in Argentina there is a huge network of private security to keep out intruders. The police can't be trusted to do it, so people have to pay privately. In addition to their artificial gated neighborhoods, private schools have sprung up to serve the residents who can't use the state schools, quite unlike the US where public schools in affluent areas are usually good or even competitive with good private schools. I also fail to see where there is any moral superiority among Argentines for supposedly being less materialistic. I see materialism all over the place along with a strong focus on outward appearances (clothes, brands, etc) that is less true in the US (in fact I wish US citizens took a little more interest in how they dressed!). I quite agree that Americans work too much and do NOT have enough vacation time. They have a hard time relaxing which is why you don't see cafes all over the place in US cities as in Argentina. Americans get nervous sitting around chatting for an hour or two. It's a pity but that may also be what built a strong economy over the years. I also agree that the family has greatly deteriorated in the US but this is a social phenomenon all over the world, just more pronounced in some places. Argentina also has a high divorce rate and, as has been discussed here before, there is an extremely high abortion rate. Abortion has to be considered just one more sign of the decay of the family. In the end I find that what matters is not a kiss on the cheek but whether you can rely on someone when you need that help. My closest friend is Argentine, someone in whom I have total confidence. I have other Argentine friends whom I can rely on. It's not about hugs and kisses but about sincere human relationships. There are Americans who are just as reliable. I know some. The relationships we form depend on ourselves, not the nationality or even the culture of the person. I know people from many different countries but despite cultural differences, I can distinguish between those of good character and those less so. It annoys me to hear Argentines who have never even been to the US make judgments but they often persist in doing so. In another post on this site I talked about the friend in Ohio who invited her Argentine woman friend and husband to visit. The husband is an academic and virulently anti American. When they got to Ohio they were overwhelmed by the kindness of the neighbors. They got invitations to dinner, to barbecues, to the swim club etc. The husband didn't know how to react because it destroyed his negative image of the "cold" Americans. I'd also add that I find a lot of Americans generous with their money, not only with charity which is widespread in the US but with friends. I know that Argentines have much less money to give and there is mistrust in charitable organizations because or corruption but what has created the corruption? Why is there more transparency in the US?

 

[Silvie]

There were past governments that during 15 years practically brainwashed younger people, making them believe that capitalism is evil. I think that's all it is.

 

[mc kenna]

Anytime you really wanna know who your friends are, just tell them you are broke, but not temporarily out of funds, just plain old fashion broke , then see how many of these warm family oriented Argentines stick around....get it thru your heads, you are their 'gringo friend"and you will never be one of them, 9 out of 10 Argies are posers and pretenders, maybe if you live here long enough you will be able to harvest one true friend..

 

[PaulBee]

Could it be that Argentines are concerned about the IMF currently, which they associate with the US ? I also wonder whether the general dislike of President Trump is a factor (though I don`t know of Trump insulting Argentines yet) ?

 

[sergio]

Anytime you really wanna know who your friends are, just tell them you are broke, but not temporarily out of funds, just plain old fashion broke , then see how many of these warm family oriented Argentines stick around....get it thru your heads, you are their 'gringo friend"and you will never be one of them, 9 out of 10 Argies are posers and pretenders, maybe if you live here long enough you will be able to harvest one true friend..

I don't know a lot of people in the US who would be helpful with money if I really needed it. I DO know one Argentine who HAS been helpful not only with money but in many other ways and I believe there are quite a few others who would help out in an emergency and several more who could be trusted in other ways, including with money. It may be ironic but some of the most trustworthy people I know are Argentine but of course they are people I have known for a long time and who have shown consistently good character. They also admit that their values are at odds with the society as a whole but neverthless there are people out there like that. I think some expats don't assimilate enough to meet such people. Maybe I've been fortunate but on the whole I've met more decent people than bad and I've been protected by friends who are aware of the pitfalls out there and have steered me in the right direction. As much as I might gripe about corruption in Argentina, incompetence and lack of logic in a lot that is done, on the whole I've come out ahead, even insofar as the law has been concerned. There are advantages and disadvantages to living in Argentina. It's not all good nor is it all bad. It depends on your sitution in life and what you're looking for but all things considered I am grateful for the good I have encountered in the country and the life experiences it has given me.

 

[Musicmanman]

I notice that Argentines seem to look at the less fortunate with a “there but by the grace of God go I” attitude where as in the US we seem to think “anyone can succeed. Why don’t you get a job” American Dream attitude.

 

[RichardP]

Fiscal, based on your other thread and this one, your wife may be preparing you to make the choice to leave the US indefinitely. I married an Argentinan and she also wanted to have our child in Argentina. I was willing to oblige but she eventually came to her senses and decided it best to have her in the US. We have traveled there several times since the birth of our daughter almost 5 years ago and my wife is perfectly fine living in the US now. She has a mix of admiration and similar feelings that your wife has toward the country, but after 22 years realizes that the US has much more to offer. It took her a long time to come to that conclusion though.
She adores her country and would love to have our daughter grow up there but it's just not practical to be there right now.