Naturalization after two years of giving birth

[nicoenarg]

Dear all, thank you so much for your help.

Elqueso and Sleuth, I want to apply for the citizenship because I am stateless. I basically need a nationality and a future home for my wife and kids.

I cannot live in Argentina NOW for more than a year because I am currently doing my doctorate Phd and I have regular seminars that I have to attend.

After reading all our kind replies, it seems to me that there is something unclear as it is stated everywhere online that I have to live in Argentina for a minimum of two years before I apply for the citizenship! I have even contacted a lawyer who mentioned to me that I need to apply after two years and it will take another year to get a reply; so technically 3 years.

Would really appreciate your inputs as I am really confused on what to do next.

Thanking you all very much in advance.

You are stateless? Care to elaborate? I seriously hope you have your birth certificate in order because they are crazy about those things here. I also hope you can get that birth certificate verified because if you can't, don't expect logic to prevail in these bureucratic lands of Argentina.

You also are required to produce police records stating that you haven't commit crime in the country where you belong...being stateless, that will make things more complicated.

If you have a problem finding these documents or getting them attested, I would suggest you find a country that understands these things. Or move here as a refugee.

Other than that, you and your wife can live here as irregular residents for as long as you want (until they change those rules, if they ever do) and hope your child will not run into any problems when he or she is older.

If people think I might be exaggerating a bit here, I was born in a country other than my citizenship and it took me a year and 4 months to prove that there was nothing fishy in the fact that I was a citizen of the country I was born in.

So, like I said, unless you can get everything in order, I would suggest you go to a place where people listen to logic rather than paperwork requirements.

 

[MoGee]

I am a Palestinian refugee, i am not allowed to return there because it is an occupied land now, now I hold a refugee travel document. Yes I have a birth certificate and a clean police record in all the countries I have lived in. I believe I have all the necessary documents but I am concerned about the duration of time that I have to spend in Argentina after my wife gives birth there in order to qualify for citizenship.

 

[nicoenarg]

I am a Palestinian refugee, i am not allowed to return there because it is an occupied land now, now I hold a refugee travel document. Yes I have a birth certificate and a clean police record in all the countries I have lived in. I believe I have all the necessary documents but I am concerned about the duration of time that I have to spend in Argentina after my wife gives birth there in order to qualify for citizenship.

The reason for you being stateless as that could factor into whether you could easily get citizenship or not.

As for the amount of time you need to stay here before you can apply for citizenship.

As soon as you get documentation for your child stating that he or she is an Argentine citizen, you are eligible to apply for citizenship. I will repeat it, YOU DO NOT NEED TO LIVE HERE FOR TWO YEARS BEFORE APPLYING FOR CITIZENSHIP IF YOU HAVE AN ARGENTINE SPOUSE OR CHILD.

As for documentation, you need to get it apostilled. That is, you need to get the embassy, consulate or a representative office of the country you were born in to put a stamp on it saying that its the original document. And once you do that, you need to go to the Argentine embassy in the country of your birth and get it apostilled or attested there.

Same deal with the police records. You need to get police certificates from the country of your birth and the countries that you have resided in and get the apostilled or attested from both the offices of those countries and the Argentine embassies in thos countries.

I am telling you all of this so you don't come here expecting everything to smooth sail and then end up in a situation where you're stuck here as an irregular person (which isn't illegal here, by the way).

Where are you a refugee? And why can't you get a permanent status there? Also, if you're from the West Bank, you can go to Jordan and claim citizenship right away.

 

[MoGee]

The reason for you being stateless as that could factor into whether you could easily get citizenship or not.

As for the amount of time you need to stay here before you can apply for citizenship.

As soon as you get documentation for your child stating that he or she is an Argentine citizen, you are eligible to apply for citizenship. I will repeat it, YOU DO NOT NEED TO LIVE HERE FOR TWO YEARS BEFORE APPLYING FOR CITIZENSHIP IF YOU HAVE AN ARGENTINE SPOUSE OR CHILD.

As for documentation, you need to get it apostilled. That is, you need to get the embassy, consulate or a representative office of the country you were born in to put a stamp on it saying that its the original document. And once you do that, you need to go to the Argentine embassy in the country of your birth and get it apostilled or attested there.

Same deal with the police records. You need to get police certificates from the country of your birth and the countries that you have resided in and get the apostilled or attested from both the offices of those countries and the Argentine embassies in thos countries.

I am telling you all of this so you don't come here expecting everything to smooth sail and then end up in a situation where you're stuck here as an irregular person (which isn't illegal here, by the way).

Where are you a refugee? And why can't you get a permanent status there? Also, if you're from the West Bank, you can go to Jordan and claim citizenship right away.

Thanks for your reply.

So once i get all of these documents i can hire a lawyer and proceed with the citizenship? Do have any idea how long it will take for me to get to meet the judge? How long does it take to get implement the verdict on naturalization?

I cannot go to Jordan as i am not to apply for the Jordanian citizenship as i am not even allowed to go there for a visit enen though my wife is Jordanian we have a lot of funny stories here in the Arab world.

At the moment i am working as a consultant for a ministry in Saudi Arabia. It is a fixed three year contract.

After reading your post, i hope you are right about the 2 years stay as it would really help!

Thanks again,

 

[nicoenarg]

Thanks for your reply.

So once i get all of these documents i can hire a lawyer and proceed with the citizenship? Do have any idea how long it will take for me to get to meet the judge? How long does it take to get implement the verdict on naturalization?

I cannot go to Jordan as i am not to apply for the Jordanian citizenship as i am not even allowed to go there for a visit enen though my wife is Jordanian we have a lot of funny stories here in the Arab world.

At the moment i am working as a consultant for a ministry in Saudi Arabia. It is a fixed three year contract.

After reading your post, i hope you are right about the 2 years stay as it would really help!

Thanks again,

Yeah I know the Arab world, I was born in Saudi Arabia. Lived in the UAE. Palestinians are used as political pawns by most of the Arab world. Its sad, really. Anyway, don't want to get into politics.

I understand now why you want to leave, living in Saudi Arabia is not very easy and its not very stable either.

Go to the following link. That's the website of the lawyer we have all been mentioning.

http://50.22.109.32/~rubilar/citizenship

Check out the requirements.

Staying here for 2 years is not required for you if you have an Argentine child, like I said before. And that would be the least of your problems.

It takes around a year or a year and a half, with a lawyer, for you to get your citizenship. I really suggest you speak with Bajo_cero2 (AKA Dr. Rubilar) about the details.

What I can tell you here is that from the time you file the paperwork to the time you get to see the judge it will take around 7-9 months. When you appear before the judge, you should have some basic understanding of Spanish (some judges ask that you speak, read and write Spanish), you should be working "honestly". Honest way of living does not mean "legal", it just shouldn't be some criminal activitiy, that's it. So even if you're working as an "irregular" immigrant but can support your family, then that counts. If your wife is working and she is supporting you and your child, then that counts as well.

Spanish brings me to another point. I am hoping you know some Spanish because delivering a baby here without the knowlege of Spanish is going to be a hell of a routine for you and your wife. If you don't know Spanish, then I would rethink your move to Argentina. It can be extremely difficult. Unless you have family here.

If you insist on coming to Argentina, then bring enough money with you so it will last you a long time since the economy here isn't so swell, and if you don't speak Spanish then finding work here for you will be close to impossible. Especially since you are not going to be a legal resident here for a little while until your child's paperwork is done. And if you or your wife don't have a job or regular income, then you are not eligible for citizenship.

You also need to think about the lawyer's fees. Getting the judges to do the right thing here takes a lot of effort and time on the lawyer's part, so they are not going to do this pro bono.

Finally, I don't know if you are aware of this but there are other countries that will grant you and your wife refugee status based on your situation. The fact that you do not have a permanent "home country" and are stateless makes you eligible for refugee status in a lot of countries. I would look that up too. It might be easier than having your wife deliver a baby where you don't know the language, where the judges don't even know what laws apply and where getting a job, these days, is pretty damn hard.

That's my advice, but if you need anything else, PM me. And I strongly suggest you PM Bajo_cero2.

 

[MoGee]

Thank you very much for your support.

So I cannot just pay from my savings for this one year and half period? Do I really need to have a job during this period?

 

[nicoenarg]

Thank you very much for your support.

So I cannot just pay from my savings for this one year and half period? Do I really need to have a job during this period?

You need to have a stable source of income. Savings don't count. Retirement counts, where you get money every month.

They need to know that you will be a responsible citizen and not an eventual burden on the state.

That is why I am asking you to think hard on this. Its not as easy as a casual walk in the park. Its harder than it appears.

If you have a child who is Argentine, you have the right to apply for citizenship right away, but to be able to obtain citizenship, you need to satisfy the requirements laid down by the law and the judges.

A stable source of income, either you with a job or your wife, enough that it can support your whole family is a requirement.

 

[nicoenarg]

Also, what is your level of Spanish?

 

[MoGee]

I am taking courses t the moment, I think I will be better by the time I get there. Does the job have to be in Argentina? Can I show evidence that I am still employed with an employer in Saudi Arabia with a monthly income?

I am a consultant, I prepare reports for living and my employer is going to keep the contract running to come back to them after I come back from Argentina. So basically i will e working from my house. Do you think this would work for the judge?

Btw, how much is a good salary to live for a family of four living in Palermo Hollywood?

Thanks mate

 

[nicoenarg]

I am taking courses t the moment, I think I will be better by the time I get there. Does the job have to be in Argentina? Can I show evidence that I am still employed with an employer in Saudi Arabia with a monthly income?

I am a consultant, I prepare reports for living and my employer is going to keep the contract running to come back to them after I come back from Argentina. So basically i will e working from my house. Do you think this would work for the judge?

Btw, how much is a good salary to live for a family of four living in Palermo Hollywood?

Thanks mate

No the job does not need to be in Argentina. As long as you can prove that you have a job, whether in Argentina or overseas, AND you have regular monthly income (bank statements), you should be fine.

The judge will decide, based on the numbers released by the government, how much is enough for you and your family but it shouldn't be that much.

If you are asking how much you need to live comfortably in Palermo, then I would say, around 20,000 pesos for a family of four. I might be off and others might disagree but you can get by comfortably with that amount of money.

If you want to live a life of luxury, then you need a lot more.

Buenos Aires is an expensive city. Be ready to shell out a lot of money to be able to live here.

Another thing that you might need to work out with your employer is that a year or a year and a half is only an estimate. I know cases where it took people up to 6 years to get the citizenship. So make sure your employer understands that it isn't up to you how long it takes.

However, I am sure if you hire Bajo_cero2 as your lawyer, then I am sure it will work out sooner than 6 years.