Neighbor's dogs knocked over fence, mauled other neighbor's dog in front of my kid. Can I do anything?

Speaking of laws here is there anything particular foreigners should know etc - self defence laws and what it allowed/not etc... I have wheard nightmare stories about thieves robbing houses and ending up coming out worst for wear (or dead) and the home owner getting prosecuted...
Basic Rules: You feared for your life (never ever mention material things).
If the BG retreats/is leaving any reaction on your behalf is considered an attack, not a defensive move. You are the guilty party.
Whatever happened before is another - unrelated - story
Bodies must drop inside your property, no tampering.
The instant you became a victim, it will semble like it is an endless situation.
You might need a criminal lawyer that will start by measuring the depths of your pockets and your credit... get the picture?
You might also need to become the Comisario's best friend...there's another drift for you.
If it doesn't look bad enough yet, the other parties (and relatives) will get all your personal info through the BG lawyers.
There is where the Comisario earns his slice of your cake.

Iz
 
I'm in a small town in Santa Fe . I was walking down the sidewalk with my two-year old son and my girlfriend's dog (a border collie) on a leash. I do it pretty often. The neighbors (very humble family with little money that probably live on government assistance ) have a dog they let live out in their front yard (common in Argentina) and always follow me when I walk with my son. Not my dog but what am I going to do? It always follows me. About 50 meters from my house is a some sort of business/store with a dirt driveway/parking lot about twenty meters long from the sidewalk to a chain link fence.

The neighbor's dog (super friendly, loves everyone and all dogs and cats) that is following me runs over to the chain link fence, and in an attempt to play runs back and forth parallel to the fence. Then my son runs over following the dog, and I am yelling "Luca, come back!!" Suddenly, the two dogs behind the chain link fence knock the fence completely over, pinning the neighbor's dog under the fence and start attacking the neighbor's dog through the fence in the worst way possible. Never seen a dog fight and never want to see one again, it was terrible, it was like lions on an antelope. Really gruesome, and the poor dog is screaming in a way I've never heard a dog scream.

I start yelling for help. It is a small town so one is on the street. My son is right next to this dog fight because he had followed the neighbor's dog. He is screaming and crying. My own dog is going crazy on the leash. I run over, grab my son and put him over to the side. I drop the leash of my dog, and start trying to separate these two dogs attacking the neighbor's dog but I can't. They are big. Kicking them in the head doesn't work. I keep screaming for help. Finally someone from across the street comes over and grabs my son and runs back to the other side of the street because he is so freaked out by this. One of the two dogs starts attacking my own dog, which I don't have control of anymore because I dropped the leash. It is just a mess. My kid is crying like a maniac. I am able to get my dog, I pick it up, run it across the street.

Then I run back and the two dogs are still attacking my neighbor's dog, who is pinned to the ground and all bloody. I kick the dogs as hard as I can but they won't stop. I know it is stupid but I grab one with all my strength to push it off but it just jumps back on my neighbor's dog, which I am not sure how it is even still alive. Finally I take my backpack (that I use to carry my kid's diapers and water bottle) and start smashing the two dogs over the head until they get off, and the neighbor's dog limps off. No one knows where she went, I'm pretty worried she is dead.

I take my kid and dog back. Then I go back to this business and leave a note with my phone number. Then a car drives up, it is the owner and his wife. I tell him what happens, and that if he has vicious dogs he needs to fix his fence. He tells me it isn't his problem if someone else's dog comes up to his property. I said well it is your problem when you don't have a fence in good condition and they can just knock it over and start attacking. "You can't leave your fence like that, it's a danger to everyone. What if the dogs came after my kid? Fix your fence. If you don't have the money, I'll pay for it, but don't leave hazards like this." He says, "my dogs are puppies, they won't attack people, they are friendly." Then his wife yells at me, "Why was your son on our property?" And I said, he's two years old, we live in a tiny village, he ran 20 meters in front of me. They yell at me to take better care of my kid. I respond, "My kid doesn't t deserve the death sentence from two giant dogs because he dared to step on to your front yard." The wife and husband stop talking to me and go inside their business and lock the door.

Is there anything I can actually do? Feel terrible for the neighbor's dog. I mean it is true it was his property the neighbor's dog and my kid ran on to.
I am an old man. You would not know it to look at me, but I am an old man...in spirit.

I gave up on the concept of justice or fairness a long time ago. When I was young and idealistic, I fought for such things. But now, I just try to live my simple life- maximizing my personal comfort and happiness, without causing harm to others. To the extent that I help others, it is through sharing a personal example and/or a personal show of kindness. -but less through imposing my will/advice/views of the world on others.

So, let me share a personal example of something that we can all relate to:

I was raised in a culture/community where 'noise' was considered a nuisance. A form of pollution. As an adult, I have come to be aware that not every sub-culture/community in my country of birth feels the same way. This of course can also be said for many cultures/communities around the world.

Of course, I could go and find a community where the people think in a similar way as I do about noise. However, I am single and very curious and open minded and I love to explore. I see value in living in other cultures and I try to personally cope with those few things that cause me discomfort.

So, when I go into a place where the local community does not view noise - especially late night noise- as pollution: For example folks allow their dogs to bark late night, they park cars in locations where their car alarms get tripped (repeatedly) late at night, and excessively loud music gets played late at night...etc. - I don't get mad. I look for ways to solve to problem without requiring any effort on the part of anyone else.

Would I love to give rude people a piece of my mind? Of course. But pragmatically speaking, I know it won't get me anywhere. So, along time ago I developed a travel sleeping kit. It includes a lightproof facemask, ear plugs, comfortable earbuds. Depending on the level/nature of the noise, I have several noise cancelling sound tracks that I will play on loud speaker on my iphone on the other side of my bedroom. I will then connect comfortable ear buds to a second device that plays music I can fall asleep too.

The combination of the various noise-cancelling strategies that I have developed means I haven't missed a good night's sleep due to noise in several years.

So, what is the point of this and how does it relate to your circumstance?

Well, while reading your posting, I envisioned your two-year old son basically running freely beyond your sphere on control. I imagined your child being in place of your neighbor's dog. The image in my mind horrified me and is what motived me to respond to your posting.

From what you've shared, I've gathered that you are living in a community that is different from the one in which you were raised. You have notions about how people should behave and how things should work -probably based on how/where you were raised. But now you are living in rural small-town Argentina where you are raising your child. Dogs freely roam the streets. People drive too fast. The existence of pot holes mean that those fast drivers will sometimes make erratic movements.

No driver should -nor has the right to- hit your child. No dog owner has the right to let their dog out where it could maul your child the way your neighbor's dog was mauled. But consider adjusting to the realities of your living situation: Do you want to be in a position where you are fighting for justice after your child is injured/dies in some horrific accident?

If I were in your position, I don't think I would allow my two-year old (cognitive abilities are limited at this age) to roam freely where dogs/cars are present. I absolutely do not believe in 'helicopter parenting' but I do believe in adapting my behavior to the realities of my living situation. You have your dog on a leash. Maybe when you are in certain circumstances, a child leash might be appropriate, too? (this is a random suggestion, the broader point is what's important here) Do you want your child running into the street just as a fast, irresponsible drive passes by? Or running near a dog that is out of control? Or touching/eating one of the 1000 piece of dog poop decorating the local sidewalk?

All I am saying is that you need to find ways for you and your family to live happily and safely - without requiring the broader community standards/customs to change. Be vigilant and be responsible for your own safety and happiness. Expect nothing from others. You're living in a different community. How your son is raised will necessarily be different from how you were raised.

Consider developing your own life kit of strategies to cope with the negative aspects of the community in which you are living. With a small child, your circumstance is infinitely more complicated than my personal annoyance with late night noise. But perhaps the same mindset applies.

I know your posting was about your neighbor's dog; but I couldn't get the image of your son out of my mind. That just seemed more important to me

goodluck.
 
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I am an old man. You would not know it to look at me, but I am an old man...in spirit.

I gave up on the concept of justice or fairness a long time ago. When I was young and idealistic, I fought for such things. But now, I just try to live my simple life- maximizing my personal comfort and happiness, without causing harm to others. To the extent that I help others, it is through sharing a personal example and/or a personal show of kindness. -but less through imposing my will/advice/views of the world on others.

So, let me share a personal example of something that we can all relate to:

I was raised in a culture/community where 'noise' was considered a nuisance. A form of pollution. As an adult, I have come to be aware that not every sub-culture/community in my country of birth feels the same way. This of course can also be said for many cultures/communities around the world.

Of course, I could go and find a community where the people think in a similar way as I do about noise. However, I am single and very curious and open minded and I love to explore. I see value in living in other cultures and I try to personally cope with those few things that cause me discomfort.

So, when I go into a place where the local community does not view noise - especially late night noise- as pollution: For example folks allow their dogs to bark late night, they park cars in locations where their car alarms get tripped (repeatedly) late at night, and excessively loud music gets played late at night...etc. - I don't get mad. I look for ways to solve to problem without requiring any effort on the part of anyone else.

Would I love to give rude people a piece of my mind? Of course. But pragmatically speaking, I know it won't get me anywhere. So, along time ago I developed a travel sleeping kit. It includes a lightproof facemask, ear plugs, comfortable earbuds. Depending on the level/nature of the noise, I have several noise cancelling sound tracks that I will play on loud speaker on my iphone on the other side of my bedroom. I will then connect comfortable ear buds to a second device that plays music I can fall asleep too.

The combination of the various noise-cancelling strategies that I have developed means I haven't missed a good night's sleep due to noise in several years.

So, what is the point of this and how does it relate to your circumstance?

Well, while reading your posting, I envisioned your two-year old son basically running freely beyond your sphere on control. I imagined your child being in place of your neighbor's dog. The image in my mind horrified me and is what motived me to respond to your posting.

From what you've shared, I've gathered that you are living in a community that is different from the one in which you were raised. You have notions about how people should behave and how things should work -probably based on how/where you were raised. But now you are living in rural small-town Argentina where you are raising your child. Dogs freely roam the streets. People drive too fast. The existence of pot holes mean that those fast drivers will sometimes make erratic movements.

No driver should -nor has the right to- hit your child. No dog owner has the right to let their dog out where it could maul your child the way your neighbor's dog was mauled. But consider adjusting to the realities of your living situation: Do you want to be in a position where you are fighting for justice after your child is injured/dies in some horrific accident?

If I were in your position, I don't think I would allow my two-year old (cognitive abilities are limited at this age) to roam freely where dogs/cars are present. I absolutely do not believe in 'helicopter parenting' but I do believe in adapting my behavior to the realities of my living situation. You have your dog on a leash. Maybe when you are in certain circumstances, a child leash might be appropriate, too? (this is a random suggestion, the broader point is what's important here) Do you want your child running into the street just as a fast, irresponsible drive passes by? Or running near a dog that is out of control? Or touching/eating one of the 1000 piece of dog poop decorating the local sidewalk?

All I am saying is that you need to find ways for you and your family to live happily and safely - without requiring the broader community standards/customs to change. Be vigilant and be responsible for your own safety and happiness. Expect nothing from others. You're living in a different community. How your son is raised will necessarily be different from how you were raised.

Consider developing your own life kit of strategies to cope with the negative aspects of the community in which you are living. With a small child, your circumstance is infinitely more complicated than my personal annoyance with late night noise. But perhaps the same mindset applies.

I know your posting was about your neighbor's dog; but I couldn't get the image of your son out of my mind. That just seemed more important to me

goodluck.
Nomad,

What an awesome, complete, thoughtful and accurate post you shared.

I too have traveled your path in life, in that I used to want things to work the way they should, but after having lived enough, I have come to realize if I change and adjust, as well as accept situations for them being imperfect, I will get through my day and my life better / unscathed. It's a non confrontational approach.

I know there are some people who are real fighters out there. And they do all right most of the time. But this won't work for me even though I could be a great fighter for me and my rights, I just don't find the drama worth it. And given I am older (Not sure I would go as far as referring to myself as an old man YET.) I find it a lot better to be the one who gives, who is flexible. The way I am looking at it, I am avoiding trouble for two parties. Them and ME!

Laws are laws and rules are rules. Ever since either existed, human nature being what it is, people have been breaking them because they either don't care or they are trying to get an edge or advantage over the next person. I understand this, I freely accept this. And I mention this because I want to make, what I feel is a very, very important point. It's part of my philosophy for living and dealing with others:

I will never act the part of a maniac in terms of standing in a line to protect my place in said line. Or demand I get an equal share of something because that is the way it should have been. Or expect that because the law is on my side, I ought to be allowed to walk across the street with a motorist yielding the right of way because I am a pedestrian. You get the idea? Well all that goes out the window in one simple circumstance - And I hope the circumstance never becomes my reality. It simply is this: There is no such thing as being a lady or gentlemen in the circumstance of trying to get into a life boat from a sinking ship, or running for an exit from a burning building etc ... If the day ever comes that it is either me, or someone else, I will fight as hard as I can for my life and to survive, because that is what we are programmed to do. If that circumstance never becomes my reality, I will yield to everyone to avoid a fight / confrontation.

Food for thought.
 
I am an old man. You would not know it to look at me, but I am an old man...in spirit.

I gave up on the concept of justice or fairness a long time ago. When I was young and idealistic, I fought for such things. But now, I just try to live my simple life- maximizing my personal comfort and happiness, without causing harm to others. To the extent that I help others, it is through sharing a personal example and/or a personal show of kindness. -but less through imposing my will/advice/views of the world on others.

So, let me share a personal example of something that we can all relate to:

I was raised in a culture/community where 'noise' was considered a nuisance. A form of pollution. As an adult, I have come to be aware that not every sub-culture/community in my country of birth feels the same way. This of course can also be said for many cultures/communities around the world.

Of course, I could go and find a community where the people think in a similar way as I do about noise. However, I am single and very curious and open minded and I love to explore. I see value in living in other cultures and I try to personally cope with those few things that cause me discomfort.

So, when I go into a place where the local community does not view noise - especially late night noise- as pollution: For example folks allow their dogs to bark late night, they park cars in locations where their car alarms get tripped (repeatedly) late at night, and excessively loud music gets played late at night...etc. - I don't get mad. I look for ways to solve to problem without requiring any effort on the part of anyone else.

Would I love to give rude people a piece of my mind? Of course. But pragmatically speaking, I know it won't get me anywhere. So, along time ago I developed a travel sleeping kit. It includes a lightproof facemask, ear plugs, comfortable earbuds. Depending on the level/nature of the noise, I have several noise cancelling sound tracks that I will play on loud speaker on my iphone on the other side of my bedroom. I will then connect comfortable ear buds to a second device that plays music I can fall asleep too.

The combination of the various noise-cancelling strategies that I have developed means I haven't missed a good night's sleep due to noise in several years.

So, what is the point of this and how does it relate to your circumstance?

Well, while reading your posting, I envisioned your two-year old son basically running freely beyond your sphere on control. I imagined your child being in place of your neighbor's dog. The image in my mind horrified me and is what motived me to respond to your posting.

From what you've shared, I've gathered that you are living in a community that is different from the one in which you were raised. You have notions about how people should behave and how things should work -probably based on how/where you were raised. But now you are living in rural small-town Argentina where you are raising your child. Dogs freely roam the streets. People drive too fast. The existence of pot holes mean that those fast drivers will sometimes make erratic movements.

No driver should -nor has the right to- hit your child. No dog owner has the right to let their dog out where it could maul your child the way your neighbor's dog was mauled. But consider adjusting to the realities of your living situation: Do you want to be in a position where you are fighting for justice after your child is injured/dies in some horrific accident?

If I were in your position, I don't think I would allow my two-year old (cognitive abilities are limited at this age) to roam freely where dogs/cars are present. I absolutely do not believe in 'helicopter parenting' but I do believe in adapting my behavior to the realities of my living situation. You have your dog on a leash. Maybe when you are in certain circumstances, a child leash might be appropriate, too? (this is a random suggestion, the broader point is what's important here) Do you want your child running into the street just as a fast, irresponsible drive passes by? Or running near a dog that is out of control? Or touching/eating one of the 1000 piece of dog poop decorating the local sidewalk?

All I am saying is that you need to find ways for you and your family to live happily and safely - without requiring the broader community standards/customs to change. Be vigilant and be responsible for your own safety and happiness. Expect nothing from others. You're living in a different community. How your son is raised will necessarily be different from how you were raised.

Consider developing your own life kit of strategies to cope with the negative aspects of the community in which you are living. With a small child, your circumstance is infinitely more complicated than my personal annoyance with late night noise. But perhaps the same mindset applies.

I know your posting was about your neighbor's dog; but I couldn't get the image of your son out of my mind. That just seemed more important to me

goodluck.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. My struggle is with the fact that, I live in a small town with no cars and few people -- one of the benefits of that is being able to walk around safely with your two-year old child on the sidewalk. Unless I put a leash on my kid, he is going to run ahead of me at times, sometimes into the front yard of people's houses or the parking lot of a business. But, I learned a hard (but lucky) lesson that my child is exposed to an enormous amount of danger any time he steps foot onto the patio of my neighbor or some business (as do I, to grab him), and there is little in the way of laws to protect us, money, or incentivizes for neighbors not to leave their patios free of hazards. So effectively, any time I go outside, I am putting my child at serious risk.

I liken it to living in a dangerous villa in Buenos Aires. If I go outside with my kid, I am exposing both me and myself to extreme dangers. So I should never go outside. The responsible thing to do is stay inside at all times and only leave by car/remis. But then, why am I living in a dangerous villa in the first place?
 
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. My struggle is with the fact that, I live in a small town with no cars and few people -- one of the benefits of that is being able to walk around safely with your two-year old child on the sidewalk. Unless I put a leash on my kid, he is going to run ahead of me at times, sometimes into the front yard of people's houses or the parking lot of a business. But, I learned a hard (but lucky) lesson that my child is exposed to an enormous amount of danger any time he steps foot onto the patio of my neighbor or some business (as do I, to grab him), and there is little in the way of laws to protect us, money, or incentivizes for neighbors not to leave their patios free of hazards. So effectively, any time I go outside, I am putting my child at serious risk.

I liken it to living in a dangerous villa in Buenos Aires. If I go outside with my kid, I am exposing both me and myself to extreme dangers. So I should never go outside. The responsible thing to do is stay inside at all times and only leave by car/remis. But then, why am I living in a dangerous villa in the first place?
Fiscal,

DON'T OVERREACT!

Learn your lesson, make note of it and then proceed to live your life with new information that helps you navigate life.
 
Fiscal,

DON'T OVERREACT!

Learn your lesson, make note of it and then proceed to live your life with new information that helps you navigate life.
And another thing. everything good seems to have a dangerous side. Or at least if you think hard and long enough, just about everything seems to have a downside. See the good in things, not the bad. See the enjoyment in things, not the risk. And at the same time, don't be blind. Know that we don't live in a perfect world. Things can happen. Find a balance and don't harbor resentment or anger for past incidents. Don't give up on life. Just live it carefully and expect the unexpected.
 
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. My struggle is with the fact that, I live in a small town with no cars and few people -- one of the benefits of that is being able to walk around safely with your two-year old child on the sidewalk. Unless I put a leash on my kid, he is going to run ahead of me at times, sometimes into the front yard of people's houses or the parking lot of a business. But, I learned a hard (but lucky) lesson that my child is exposed to an enormous amount of danger any time he steps foot onto the patio of my neighbor or some business (as do I, to grab him), and there is little in the way of laws to protect us, money, or incentivizes for neighbors not to leave their patios free of hazards. So effectively, any time I go outside, I am putting my child at serious risk.

I liken it to living in a dangerous villa in Buenos Aires. If I go outside with my kid, I am exposing both me and myself to extreme dangers. So I should never go outside. The responsible thing to do is stay inside at all times and only leave by car/remis. But then, why am I living in a dangerous villa in the first place?

Lots of life questions for you to answer. I'm hesitant to wade into this much further, but...

Have you befriended -or considered befriending- a local grandma there in your neighborhood? Someone who has observed multi-generations of child rearing in that environment? Might have some valuable insights to offer - as well as a perspective on the neighborhood-at-large and that problematic neighbor with the dogs/bad fence. Might reinforce your current ideas/allay some fears...
 
Lots of life questions for you to answer. I'm hesitant to wade into this much further, but...

Have you befriended -or considered befriending- a local grandma there in your neighborhood? Someone who has observed multi-generations of child rearing in that environment? Might have some valuable insights to offer - as well as a perspective on the neighborhood-at-large and that problematic neighbor with the dogs/bad fence. Might reinforce your current ideas/allay some fears...

Actually...nevermind. Please disregard anything/everything I've written.

I've just perused through some of your other postings....

You problems all seem to emanate from falling under the spell of one magic coochie.

As a gay man I have nothing to offer.
 
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