New rentista visa requirements

[Bajo_cero2]

Are you sure?

Active income applies to someone who is actually working and receiving wages or a salary. Wouldn't someone with active income in Argentina need a work visa and need to be working for a company registered to business in Argentina?

If a person is living in Argentina and receiving income from a foreign company but is not working then the income would be dividends or shared profits. Both are passive sources of income and are acceptable for the visa rentista.

Absolutely. There is a lot of misunderstanding because migration agents who give info at the Retiro Building have only high school studies and that´s it. There should be a lawyer because is all about legal concepts. They are more like Mc Donald´s employees.

Let´s analize the law:
[FONT=&quot]
b) Rentista: quien solvente su estadía en el país con recursos propios traídos desde el exterior, de las rentas que éstos produzcan o de cualquier otro ingreso lícito proveniente de fuentes externas. [/FONT]

There are three situation accepted by the law:

1) [FONT=&quot]"quien solvente su estadía en el país con recursos propios traídos desde el exterior" It means savings. Savings aren´t pasive because you are expending you capital not living from bank interest.

[/FONT]2) "[FONT=&quot]de las rentas que éstos produzcan[/FONT]", this is pasive 100%.

3) "[FONT=&quot]o de cualquier otro ingreso lícito proveniente de fuentes externas[/FONT]",This is active 100%. I translate just in case "Any other legal income from abroad". You can be working abroad and living in Argentina. If you are a writer you can live wherever you want, right? I you make your money at Forex it is the same.

The idea is that you must prove you are not making your money here.
I was at the Retiro building last monday and of course the answer I receive was, only the money for an abroad apartment rent is valid. When this agent finally irritated me enough he called his superior who was as irritated as me just because she had to leave her office but she confirmed my interpretation.

The main problem is that there is not mechanism to access to their lawyers.

But there are two mechanisms created for this cases in the civil law procedure code. The first one is called "knowledge trial" and you propose an interpretation of the law and the judge give his opinion and this is enforceable.
The second one is the amparo. The amparo is like the british class action but for one person. This is a protection against the State. If they denied your application you go to court and argue that it is arbitrary or a mistake or ilegal and this action from a member of the state is affecting your rights and they call a lawyer from migration and he and you lawyer debate about it and the judge decides. The way that migration interpretations this law is so clumsy that there are big chances of wining the case.

For example, if the new regulation about retirement resident is too high, amparo can be used to do not apply this new amount because is arbitrary and it is easy to explain why.

But, one clarification, in our juridic system the judge decision is valid only for your case. This is not like the American precedent system where one case is obligatory for all the judges.
Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Absolutely. There is a lot of misunderstanding because migration agents who give info at the Retiro Building have only high school studies and that´s it. There should be a lawyer because is all about legal concepts. They are more like Mc Donald´s employees.

The main problem is that there is not mechanism to access to their lawyers.

Nonetheless, they have the power to approve or reject the visa.

I was at the Retiro building last monday and of course the answer I receive was, only the money for an abroad apartment rent is valid.

I previously read that "rents" from apartments abroad are not usually accepted as "rentas" for the purpose of granting the visa rentista, especially if the applicant only has one property and therefore would not be considered "stable" income. The word "rentas" is similar to "rents" but they have different meanings in English and Spanish. Perhaps something was lost in the translation.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Nonetheless, they have the power to approve or reject the visa.

Yes, if you go alone they probably say no and that´s it. If you go with a lawyer he can explain the agent why he should accept your papers or just start barking . After they take your case they may send it to the legal department. Or reject it. You can appeal the rejection, the law specify this. The appeal must be solved by the legal department. If you lose you have the right to go to a judge and appeal until the Supreme Court if it is needed. But meanwhile you should ask for a medida de prohibicion de innovar, wich mean a judge order to do nothing about your deportation until the case is finished. The lawyer fee is paid by the one who lose.

I previously read that "rents" from apartments abroad are not usually accepted as "rentas" for the purpose of granting the visa rentista, especially if the applicant only has one property and therefore would not be considered "stable" income. The word "rentas" is similar to "rents" but they have different meanings in English and Spanish. Perhaps something was lost in the translation.

Renta sounds similar but means:
(Del lat. reddĭta, infl. por vendĭta).
1. f. Utilidad o beneficio que rinde anualmente algo, o lo que de ello se cobra.
2. f. Aquello que paga en dinero o en frutos un arrendatario.
3. f. Ingreso, caudal, aumento de la riqueza de una persona.
4. f. Deuda del Estado o títulos que la representan.
5. f. Der. En materia tributaria, importe neto de los rendimientos.

So, renta means the money you receive from renting your appartment or any money you recive like a salary from abroad or your own savings from abroad. However, don´t be confuse because by the nomen iuris (the juridic name used) because the law is wider that the renta concept as I explained.
Don´t forget that many of the long words in english are latin words. Renta is an exception because is short but is a latin word.
However, on Monday he said that the money from the rent was the only option accepted.
Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Yes, if you go alone they probably say no and that´s it. If you go with a lawyer he can explain the agent why he should accept your papers or just start barking.

Are you a lawyer and do you offer this service?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Yes, I am a lawyer.
I was getting involved about migration because some friends ask me for help, my main work is about criminal law.

Using the argument I explained you, you should be able to convince him. You know, you don´t need a lawyer for making your residence if you full fit the requirements.

So, let´s do the following, I go with you for free to the DGM. And if you are happy, you recommend me.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Yes, I am a lawyer.
I was getting involved about migration because some friends ask me for help, my main work is about criminal law.

Using the argument I explained you, you should be able to convince him. You know, you don´t need a lawyer for making your residence if you full fit the requirements.

So, let´s do the following, I go with you for free to the DGM. And if you are happy, you recommend me.

Regards

Thanks for your generous offer, but I already have permanent residency.

I hope you will do this for someone else and perhaps they can recommend you.

I am interested in knowing how long I have to wait to apply for citizenship. I had temporary residency for three years and will have had permanent residency for one year in October. In October I will also have been in Argentina for two years without leaving the country. Can I apply for citizenship then or do I need to wait another year or two?

 

[gunt86]

I am interested in knowing how long I have to wait to apply for citizenship. I had temporary residency for three years and have had the permanent residency for one year in October. In October I will also have been in Argentina for two years without leaving the country. Can I apply for citizenship then or do I need to wait another year or two?

I would like to know if the two years until able to apply for citizenship means:
1) two years of permanent resident status or
2) two years of continuous physical presence in Argentina

The reason i ask is that i don't think I will ever will be physically in Argentina for more than a month or two at a time.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I have a meeting in a couple of minutes, I´m going to answer you about 7. Regards

 

[domdom]

Hi Bajo Cero,

I was a lawyer in France and I clearly agree with your interpretation.. We are a group of french in Cordoba and we already informed the General Consul in B Aires and asked him to take action..
One question.. immigration never gives anything in writing.. You say to appeal the decision, how can it be done if nothing is in writing.. The amparo procedure can be made by a general consul for example in the name of the national residents in the country ?? or if we create a type of association (an association can sue in France) can we do a procedure who would be valid for everybody and in this case do it for example in B Aires and not only in Cordoba ??
Thanks a lot for you answer
Best Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I would like to know if the two years until able to apply for citizenship means:
1) two years of permanent resident status or
2) two years of continuous physical presence in Argentina

The reason i ask is that i don't think I will ever will be physically in Argentina for more than a month or two at a time.

According to article 5th. inc. 2nd of Ley 21.795 you need 2 years of continue legal residence, no physical residence:

"ARTICULO 5.- Los extranjeros podrán obtener la nacionalidad argentina, cuando se acredite:
...
b) tener DOS (2) años de residencia legal continuada en el territorio de la..."

The good news is that the procedure for applying for the citizenship is at the Federal Court. No administrative procedure .

So you have to prove that you have arraigo and the will to live here.
In fact when they give you the permanent residence it is with multiple entrance, there is only one limit, you can´t be abroad more than 11 months and 27 days.

Regards