Now Police Can Ask You For The Dni You Don't Have

[Bajo_cero2]

Pensador, this happened during a K administration. Things has changed. You might find out that the "regime" was, in fact, a democracy with a lot of freedom.

The plan of the new administration involves to fire a lot of people (forget about ñoquis) so, asking for ID is an euphemism for arresting people with no legal reason because the real one is to intimidate the whole population to avoid strikes and oppress social unhappiness. To hit people under arrest is part of the standard procedure when the target is social control (not criminality).

Experience shows that when police has this tool, they focus on doing good statics arresting people who are harmless because, when you ask for id to criminals, they shoot you:

http://www.infobae.com/2015/12/31/1780092-exclusivo-primeras-imagenes-los-profugos-el-escape-un-tiroteo

The Lanatta gang has showed in the last days how useless is to ask ID. How many police men were shot?

 

[mikic007]

This is bunch of crap.when I came to Argentina, first thing was taking my fingerprint. Never in my life I had to give it before. Theoretically they can track you through your cc, phone, street cameras... And showing dni is a problem? Like they couldn't already invent the reason they could check your id...

In EU I was checked once, when I covered my head due to wet hear and police checked me out. They apologised later, but there was no need, I was looking suspicious..

In Argentina you can breach most of the laws without problem I know, so maybe there is no need for this law. But where you can be fined because of crossing the street where you shouldn't, they have to know, to who they are writing ticket... Simple as that. Might be, that macri just wants some order in this country?

 

[nicoenarg]

This maybe one of the dumbest comments I've read on BAXpats. Also, didn't you grow up in Saudia Arabia? That certainly makes you qualified to discuss oppression, but hardly means you are in the same position as Bolivians, Paraguayans, and Peruvian.

Now, if you visit the US, that is another story.

And growing up in Saudi Arabia means what exactly? Did you just equate growing up in a country to nationality, race and demographics? LOL!! Talking about dumb comments...

 

[nicoenarg]

Because if there's one group of people you can trust to use a tool correctly and legally its the Argentine security services.

I had the same position when half the population was freaking out over new DNIs and how Cristina was going to use all that data to spy on and persecute people she didn't like.

Same thing here, until this is misused I have no reason to get all worked up about it.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

This is bunch of crap.when I came to Argentina, first thing was taking my fingerprint. Never in my life I had to give it before. Theoretically they can track you through your cc, phone, street cameras... And showing dni is a problem? Like they couldn't already invent the reason they could check your id...

That is the point, it is useless unless you want to intimidate the population.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I had the same position when half the population was freaking out over new DNIs and how Cristina was going to use all that data to spy on and persecute people she didn't like.

Same thing here, until this is misused I have no reason to get all worked up about it.

1) Well, it didn't happend during the last administration, so, it wasn't a regime even you disagree with the former officialism.

2) Asking for ID without reason is to go to another level. Let's see, following your logic, tomorrow he can decree the prima nocte and, according to you it is Ok until it is missused? How can be prima nocte be properly use? It cannot. The same happends with asking id without reason because it is a social control tool typical of totalitarian regimes. This is why it was forbidden during the former administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur

 

[nicoenarg]

1) Well, it didn't happend during the last administration, so, it wasn't a regime even you disagree with the former officialism.

2) Asking for ID without reason is to go to another level. Let's see, following your logic, tomorrow he can decree the prima nocte and, according to you it is Ok until it is missused? How can be prima nocte be properly use? It cannot. The same happends with asking id without reason because it is a social control tool typical of totalitarian regimes. This is why it was forbidden during the former administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur

This is a judicial ruling, like you pointed out yourself, not a decree. So point 2 is moot.

As for point 1, this administration has, in the 4 weeks that they've been in power, not done anything that amounts to persecution of the population so I'll worry about it when it happens.

 

[citygirl]

I thought of this thread when I got waved into the security checkpoint again yesterday at Lugones and La Pampa (as did the guy behind me driving a BMW). Same thing as always - they asked for my ID, checked the car registration and insurance and then off I went. As always, wasn't doing anything wrong. And it really was NBD as always. They're quite polite.

 

[thorsten]

Did they torture you to tell us this citygirl?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I thought of this thread when I got waved into the security checkpoint again yesterday at Lugones and La Pampa (as did the guy behind me driving a BMW). Same thing as always - they asked for my ID, checked the car registration and insurance and then off I went. As always, wasn't doing anything wrong. And it really was NBD as always. They're quite polite.

To ask for ID at a checkpoint and when you walk are 2 differents situations.

While to stop cars and ask for ID, insurance and cedula verde is regulated by the law, to ask ID at the street without reason is illegal.

Law 25.434 regulates the arrest without a judge order:

8. Aprehender a los presuntos culpables en los casos y formas que este Código autoriza y disponer su incomunicación cuando concurran los requisitos del artículo 205, por un término máximo de diez (10) horas, que no podrá prolongarse por ningún motivo sin orden judicial.
En tales supuestos deberá practicarse un informe médico a efectos de verificar el estado psicofísico de la persona al momento de su aprehensión.

Presuntos culpables means that they suspect you are guilty of a crime. They can arrest you for 10 hours to investigate you.
The medical check is a mechanism to avoid torture because it was a common practize to use this 10 hours to interrogate suspects hiting him or using dry submarine (a plastic bag in your head). So, I didn't invented it neither is my "crazy paranoia", the Congress confirms me.

Regarding to stop cars at checkpoints,

ARTICULO 4° — Incorpórese como artículo 230 bis del Código Procesal Penal de la Nación (Ley 23.984) el siguiente texto:

Artículo 230 bis: Los funcionarios de la policía y fuerza de seguridad, sin orden judicial, podrán requisar a las personas e inspeccionar los efectos personales que lleven consigo, así como el interior de los vehículos, aeronaves y buques, de cualquier clase, con la finalidad de hallar la existencia de cosas probablemente provenientes o constitutivas de un delito o de elementos que pudieran ser utilizados para la comisión de un hecho delictivo de acuerdo a las circunstancias particulares de su hallazgo siempre que sean realizadas:

a) con la concurrencia de circunstancias previas o concomitantes que razonable y objetivamente permitan justificar dichas medidas respecto de persona o vehículo determinado; y, (They have to justify why)

b.) en la vía pública o en lugares de acceso público.

La requisa o inspección se llevará a cabo, de acuerdo a lo establecido por el 2° y 3er. párrafo del artículo 230, se practicarán los secuestros del artículo 231, y se labrará acta conforme lo dispuesto por los artículos 138 y 139, debiendo comunicar la medida inmediatamente al juez para que disponga lo que corresponda en consecuencia.

Tratándose de un operativo público de prevención podrán proceder a la inspección de vehículos.

As you can read, it is allowed to ask documents in a check point because the lack of them is the reason they can use to search into your car.

They didn't do it because your papers were ok.