NYC Airbnb New Regulations, Will BA follow?

[Jtee125]

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

Just for some clarity, as somebody in their twenties, participating in any economy these days feels like starting a game of monopoly when 3/4 of the board is occupied and without the benefit of collecting $20 after passing go. The bulk of what there is to be had, has been had, and even owning a small parcel to live in and call your own is beyond the reach of so many in western economies

 

[TWB103]

Just for some clarity, as somebody in their twenties, participating in any economy these days feels like starting a game of monopoly when 3/4 of the board is occupied and without the benefit of collecting $20 after passing go. The bulk of what there is to be had, has been had, and even owning a small parcel to live in and call your own is beyond the reach of so many in western economies

Watch out. The Boomers will come along to tell you how tough they had it in the seventies...

 

[Redpossum]

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

A thoughtful and very articulate take on the issue.

It's easy to say that AirBNB is a symptom not a cause, but the root causes of all this cannot be remedied by anything short of revolution, and I do not advocate that. Ergo, treating symptoms is all we can do.

Therefore, I repeat - AirBNB is the devil.

 

[earlyretirement]

Just for some clarity, as somebody in their twenties, participating in any economy these days feels like starting a game of monopoly when 3/4 of the board is occupied and without the benefit of collecting $20 after passing go. The bulk of what there is to be had, has been had, and even owning a small parcel to live in and call your own is beyond the reach of so many in western economies

You have some clear and level-headed comments and thought process. However, I could argue the other side of the coin. I feel like many people in their twenties just feel like they are owed something in life. I am certainly NOT saying this is you. I'm just saying that I see this more and more these days. Many complain how life isn't fair and how everything is too expensive.

When I was in my twenties, I was working 70-90 hour weeks most weeks for years on end. I didn't think anything was owed to me and I knew if I wanted something that I had to work hard to get it. I didn't have wealthy parents that could even pay for my University education. I graduated college with over $100,000 in student loans that I had to pay back. People back then said the same thing that it was too expensive. (I was really bitter especially watching fraternity brothers from wealthy families that got unlimited funds and no student loans). I do agree with you that prices are out of control in many places in the USA.

But the "aha" moment for me was when I figured out that complaining about it wasn't going to help. That it would take a road map and a lot of hard work to start out.

If you can't play "monopoly" in the USA or first world country then you have to play it somewhere else. There isn't any excuse for you to not figure out where to play your own monopoly game somewhere else. Or to buy your own place in a great city for an affordable place. Take Buenos Aires for example. It's one of the finest cities in the world. One of the best qualities of life if you are making US dollars.

Prices have fallen the past few years. Even today you can buy a brand new studio apartment in Recoleta/Palermo for under $85,000 US. I'm talking about a really nice place. Many people in the USA are spending more than that on cars. You can turn around and either live in that place or you can rent it out via Airbnb and start to play your own real life "monopoly".

I've purchased real estate in many countries in South America. Most of the times when I was buying it, people were complaining on forums like this saying how it was too expensive. How that country would go to shit. How I was stupid and would lose all my money in them. Blah, blah, blah. You know what? On every single place I've purchased real estate, prices went up drastically over the long term. Sure, some places there were years of ups and downs. (COVID was NOT a fun or pretty time and was downright scary!). But in all the places I bought, I bought in the best neighborhoods and all have gone up significantly in value. Every single one of them paid for themselves in 10 years or less of owning them.

Airbnb isn't the one to blame. No one is. You have to either start playing "Monopoly" or sit on the sidelines saying how life isn't fair and it's too expensive and you and you will never own. $85,000 isn't much to own in one of the best world capital cities in the world. Buenos Aires is only one example. There are many others around the world.

Just remember, in life every single person needs a place to live. Pretty much for the rest of their life. So you can either pay rent your entire life to someone else. Or you can own. If you don't have the money then you work your ass off to earn enough money. If you're working your ass off and you still can't make enough then you borrow money so you can buy.

There is NO excuse these days with all the information out there. The power of the internet and the sharing of information and all the facts, figures, videos, blogs, etc. It's all out there. There is literally no excuse at all these days not to figure it out.

One thing you can't do is complain how life is unfair and it's too expensive. Things don't tend to end up well for people that do this. Just my 2 cents.

 

[earlyretirement]

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

We can agree to disagree. Especially about the "those with assets want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury".

You shouldn't try to vilify people that have assets. Yeah, I get there is some generational wealth that just gets passed on from generation to generation. But there are a LOT of hardworking people that just want to live life. They want to be able to retire someday and have food on their plates and a roof over their head. They want to just support their families and raise their kids in a good environment and to provide things to their kids that they never had. To be able to pay for their kids college education since they never had that done for them. This isn't evil. It's just wanting to be a good parent and a good human being.

Not everyone that has assets is evil. When I first started coming to Argentina over 20+ years ago, I just figured out that owning properties in Argentina was better than the USA and I cashed out my 401K and sold my house to do this since you can't leverage here. Things turned out pretty much like I thought they would (even though everyone and their brother told me I'd lose all my money believing in Argentina and how much of a shit hole it was).

Now, more than 2 decades later, people tell me that I was "lucky". I laugh and say it wasn't luck. Sure, it was good timing but luck had nothing to do with it. It's about looking at reality and kind of looking down the road predicting how things will be.

When I started making really meaningful local friends I gave them my thesis why they should buy here too. These weren't rich kids from wealthy families. I mean some had families that had some money but none of them were wealthy.

Many of them had been saving for a few years. Many of them got loans from family members and scraped up enough to buy a place. When I started buying you could get a brand new luxury apartment in Palermo in "pozo" (breaking ground new construction phase) for $47,000 US. Jesus they were cheap! And in the early days those units rented on Airbnb were getting $150 US per night. So needless to say those apartments paid for themselves in a few short years.

Many of my friends back then were 20 something kids that figured out they too had to play "monopoly". I only mention this because I think that people that rent forever saying they can't afford it have to remember they have to have a place over their head for the rest of their freaking lives. My Argentine friends that bought their place many years ago, many then bought another one with the rental proceeds. Some another, another another. Now today they are living off their apartments in Buenos Aires during this devastating time with inflation.

These locals aren't evil or "bleeding others day". They are just trying to live a peaceful and normal life.

I take all this time to write this not to seem condescending to you because that is not my intent at all. My intent is for you to really take action and it's not too late. You have to be really smart in your "twenties" as it can have a drastic impact on the rest of your life. Good luck.

 

[SinPulgas]

Watch out. The Boomers will come along to tell you how tough they had it in the seventies...

Ok, I won't tell you. (But I did.)

 

[Jtee125]

A thoughtful and very articulate take on the issue.

It's easy to say that AirBNB is a symptom not a cause, but the root causes of all this cannot be remedied by anything short of revolution, and I do not advocate that. Ergo, treating symptoms is all we can do.

Therefore, I repeat - AirBNB is the devil.

I hoped to be thoughtful but I didn’t expect it to be articulate. It was a drunken vent, written from a corner of Andalusia, to distract from a slow-motion relationship breakdown

Despite that I use airbnb to facilitate my lifestyle, I recognise that it is extremely problematic. I hate that I add to the problem for those being continually priced out of their economy

 

[Jtee125]

You have some clear and level-headed comments and thought process. However, I could argue the other side of the coin. I feel like many people in their twenties just feel like they are owed something in life. I am certainly NOT saying this is you. I'm just saying that I see this more and more these days. Many complain how life isn't fair and how everything is too expensive.

When I was in my twenties, I was working 70-90 hour weeks most weeks for years on end. I didn't think anything was owed to me and I knew if I wanted something that I had to work hard to get it. I didn't have wealthy parents that could even pay for my University education. I graduated college with over $100,000 in student loans that I had to pay back. People back then said the same thing that it was too expensive. (I was really bitter especially watching fraternity brothers from wealthy families that got unlimited funds and no student loans). I do agree with you that prices are out of control in many places in the USA.

But the "aha" moment for me was when I figured out that complaining about it wasn't going to help. That it would take a road map and a lot of hard work to start out.

If you can't play "monopoly" in the USA or first world country then you have to play it somewhere else. There isn't any excuse for you to not figure out where to play your own monopoly game somewhere else. Or to buy your own place in a great city for an affordable place. Take Buenos Aires for example. It's one of the finest cities in the world. One of the best qualities of life if you are making US dollars.

Prices have fallen the past few years. Even today you can buy a brand new studio apartment in Recoleta/Palermo for under $85,000 US. I'm talking about a really nice place. Many people in the USA are spending more than that on cars. You can turn around and either live in that place or you can rent it out via Airbnb and start to play your own real life "monopoly".

I've purchased real estate in many countries in South America. Most of the times when I was buying it, people were complaining on forums like this saying how it was too expensive. How that country would go to shit. How I was stupid and would lose all my money in them. Blah, blah, blah. You know what? On every single place I've purchased real estate, prices went up drastically over the long term. Sure, some places there were years of ups and downs. (COVID was NOT a fun or pretty time and was downright scary!). But in all the places I bought, I bought in the best neighborhoods and all have gone up significantly in value. Every single one of them paid for themselves in 10 years or less of owning them.

Airbnb isn't the one to blame. No one is. You have to either start playing "Monopoly" or sit on the sidelines saying how life isn't fair and it's too expensive and you and you will never own. $85,000 isn't much to own in one of the best world capital cities in the world. Buenos Aires is only one example. There are many others around the world.

Just remember, in life every single person needs a place to live. Pretty much for the rest of their life. So you can either pay rent your entire life to someone else. Or you can own. If you don't have the money then you work your ass off to earn enough money. If you're working your ass off and you still can't make enough then you borrow money so you can buy.

There is NO excuse these days with all the information out there. The power of the internet and the sharing of information and all the facts, figures, videos, blogs, etc. It's all out there. There is literally no excuse at all these days not to figure it out.

One thing you can't do is complain how life is unfair and it's too expensive. Things don't tend to end up well for people that do this. Just my 2 cents.

I really appreciate your comment. I recognise, even if I’m at the tail end of my twenties, that I can be naive, stupid, short-sighted and quick to yearn for less complex economical times.

I certainly agree that many people in their twenties believe they’re owed something for nothing, that’s a totally fair point. There are so many things I have access to that the generation above me didn’t have access to. Yet, it’s at the behest of affordable property. At least in the UK average property prices have increased from an average of 3.5x to 9x within a decade. It’s easy to wish I could have been born a decade earlier but at the same time I’m cognisant that the best time to become a property owner is as soon as possible, even if I feel like right now with rocketing interest rates that it’s buying at the top of the market.

I can totally relate with the university costs, I graduated with the same amount of debt and spent 4 years prior to Covid saving every penny to overpay my student loan because the 7% interest (think it’s now 12%) was untenable. Paying that off in my mid-twenties was a huge monkey off my back

It’s very easy for me without property assets to be jealous of those with them but you’re right that complaining doesn’t make it any easier

I really appreciated your last comment, it’s easy to maintain a victim complex and do nothing to escape it.

I, at least to think, that I’m still young. I don’t have everything worked out yet, and I appreciate the comments and advice of those with more life experience behind them.

I hope you can appreciate that my comment was half venting, half provoking discussion, and that I really appreciate your reply

 

[Jtee125]

We can agree to disagree. Especially about the "those with assets want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury".

You shouldn't try to vilify people that have assets. Yeah, I get there is some generational wealth that just gets passed on from generation to generation. But there are a LOT of hardworking people that just want to live life. They want to be able to retire someday and have food on their plates and a roof over their head. They want to just support their families and raise their kids in a good environment and to provide things to their kids that they never had. To be able to pay for their kids college education since they never had that done for them. This isn't evil. It's just wanting to be a good parent and a good human being.

Not everyone that has assets is evil. When I first started coming to Argentina over 20+ years ago, I just figured out that owning properties in Argentina was better than the USA and I cashed out my 401K and sold my house to do this since you can't leverage here. Things turned out pretty much like I thought they would (even though everyone and their brother told me I'd lose all my money believing in Argentina and how much of a shit hole it was).

Now, more than 2 decades later, people tell me that I was "lucky". I laugh and say it wasn't luck. Sure, it was good timing but luck had nothing to do with it. It's about looking at reality and kind of looking down the road predicting how things will be.

When I started making really meaningful local friends I gave them my thesis why they should buy here too. These weren't rich kids from wealthy families. I mean some had families that had some money but none of them were wealthy.

Many of them had been saving for a few years. Many of them got loans from family members and scraped up enough to buy a place. When I started buying you could get a brand new luxury apartment in Palermo in "pozo" (breaking ground new construction phase) for $47,000 US. Jesus they were cheap! And in the early days those units rented on Airbnb were getting $150 US per night. So needless to say those apartments paid for themselves in a few short years.

Many of my friends back then were 20 something kids that figured out they too had to play "monopoly". I only mention this because I think that people that rent forever saying they can't afford it have to remember they have to have a place over their head for the rest of their freaking lives. My Argentine friends that bought their place many years ago, many then bought another one with the rental proceeds. Some another, another another. Now today they are living off their apartments in Buenos Aires during this devastating time with inflation.

These locals aren't evil or "bleeding others day". They are just trying to live a peaceful and normal life.

I take all this time to write this not to seem condescending to you because that is not my intent at all. My intent is for you to really take action and it's not too late. You have to be really smart in your "twenties" as it can have a drastic impact on the rest of your life. Good luck.

I didn’t find your reply at all condescending, I found it refreshingly honest and matter-of-fact.

In hindsight, I think there’s a certain irony of me redirecting blame to property owners, while I exercise geographical arbitrage for my own economic benefit.

Thank you for the good luck. In many ways I’ve been foolish in my twenties but the thing that I’m glad that I’ve done is see as much of the world as I can. One day I’ll be done with wanting to explore the world. Argentina will always hold a special place in my heart as the place I’ve spent the longest in besides my own country.

One day I’ll have to settle down and become a property owner.

I apologise for being too resentful to those with own property

 

[earlyretirement]

I didn’t find your reply at all condescending, I found it refreshingly honest and matter-of-fact.

In hindsight, I think there’s a certain irony of me redirecting blame to property owners, while I exercise geographical arbitrage for my own economic benefit.

Thank you for the good luck. In many ways I’ve been foolish in my twenties but the thing that I’m glad that I’ve done is see as much of the world as I can. One day I’ll be done with wanting to explore the world. Argentina will always hold a special place in my heart as the place I’ve spent the longest in besides my own country.

One day I’ll have to settle down and become a property owner.

I apologise for being too resentful to those with own property

Nothing to be sorry about at all. The world would be a really boring place if we all thought the same thing. I always believe if people can be civil and kind and calmly explain their point of view the world would be a great place. Now that I'm older, I always approach forums like these kind of as advice I wish I read when I was younger.

Just as you might be envious of some of us with assets. I'm envious of people like you that got to grow up with all this technology and innovation. It's easier than ever to make money being a digital nomad and playing arbitrage living in a place that's cheap and making Dollars, euros or another currency.

You don't have to figure things out right away but everyone thinks they will be young forever. Yes, late 20's is still relatively young but time flies by. So the best thing you can do is map out on paper some of your goals. For example, tell yourself by 35 you will own a property somewhere. It doesn't matter where. But go backwards and figure out how you will make that happen.

Best of luck to you.